Samuel: 00:00

Not only will you benefit financially from it, it will also aid you to be on top of your career within the shortest possible time.

Intro: 00:09

Are you ready to know what you don't know about Privacy Pros, then you’re in the right place. Welcome to the Privacy Pros Academy podcast by Kazient Privacy Experts. The podcast to launch, progress and excel your career as a privacy pro.

Intro: 00:25

Hear about the latest news and developments in the world of privacy. Discover fascinating insights from leading global privacy professionals and hear real stories and top tips from the people who've been where you want to get to. We're an official IAPP training partner. We've trained people in over 137 countries and counting.

Intro: 00:48

So whether you're thinking about starting a career in data privacy, or you an experienced professional. This is the podcast for you.

Jamilla: 01:03

Hi everyone, and welcome to the Privacy Pros Academy podcast. My name is Jamilla and I'm a data privacy analyst at Kazient Privacy Experts. I'm primarily responsible for conducting research on current and upcoming legislation, as well as any key developments. My co-host today is Jamal Ahmed, who is a Fellow of Information Privacy and CEO at Kazient Privacy Experts. Jamal is an established and comprehensively qualified privacy professional with a demonstrable track record solving enterprise-wide data privacy and data security challenges for SMEs through complex global organization. Jamal is a Certified Information Privacy Manager, Certified Information Privacy Professional, Certified EU GDPR practitioner, Master NLP practitioner, Prince II practitioner, and he holds a Bachelor of Arts in Business with Law. He is a revered global privacy thought leader, world class trainer and published author for publications such as Thompson Reuters, the Independent, as well as numerous industry public. Jamal makes regular appearances in the media, on television, on radio, and in print, and has been dubbed the King of GDPR by the BBC. To date, he has provided privacy and GDPR compliance solutions to organizations across six continents and in over 30 jurisdictions, helping to safeguard the personal data of over a billion data subjects worldwide. Welcome, Jamal.

Jamal: 02:20

Thank you for joining me. Thank you for such a lovely welcome, Jamilla. I'm looking forward to speaking to our guest today. Why don't you tell us a little bit more about who the guest is?

Jamilla: 02:30

Our guest today is Samuel Nguwu. Samuel is a data protection associate at GH Solicitors, a law firm that specializes in Nigerian data protection regulation consultancy. Samuel obtained his LLB degree from the prestigious University of Ibadan in 2019. Proceeding thereafter to the Nigerian Law School at Abuja Campus. He completed his one-year professional training program and was called to the Nigerian bar in September, 2020 as a barrister and solicitor of the Supreme Court of Nigeria. A budding data privacy practitioner Samuel has worked and advised some multinational companies in Nigeria on NDPR compliance. He's in a team that has just concluded research work for OneTrust Data guidance on the application of NDPR to digital advertising in Nigeria. Samuel has authored some published articles in Data Privacy: X-Rays: Deconstructing Personal Data Under the Nigerian Data Protection Regulation; Examinations: Data Subjects’ Rights Under the Nigerian Data Protection Regulation 2019’ published in Lexology and Mondaq, ‘Sheep Shepherd Responsibility: Between the Data Controller and Processor’; Data Colonialism: Comments On National Information Technology Development Agency (NITDA)'s Advisory On WhatsApp's New Privacy Policy In Nigeria. Samuel is a member of the Nigerian Bar Association (NBA) member, Stakeholders in Blockchain Association of Nigeria (SiBAN), Innovation Law club Africa, Sigma Club, and Young Lawyers Mentoring. Wow. What a biography. Thank you for joining us today,

Samuel: 04:01

Thank you so much. Jamilla. A pleasure to be here.

Jamilla: 04:05

We always start with an icebreaker question to know you a little bit better. So what would be your dream holiday? Anywhere in the world?

Samuel: 04:14

My dream holiday? Anywhere I would like to go to Dubai. It’s much fun. Yeah, I’d enjoy myself. They have a lot of tourist centres there so every person from this part of the world, Nigeria would always long to be there, so it would be a place to go to.

Jamilla: 04:31

Interesting. What about you Jamal?

Jamal: 04:32

My dream holiday would be an island somewhere with no internet connection. Just me, nature and my family.

Jamilla: 04:42

An island or Ireland, the country?

Jamal: 04:44

An island. Ireland has really good signals for internet. What about you?

Jamilla: 04:50

I quite like the cold, so I want to go to Iceland. I like the cold. I don't like the hot weather. It's too hot.

Jamal: 04:57

Why is Iceland cold?

Jamilla: 04:59

Iceland is cold. It's got snow. Are you sure? I'm pretty sure Iceland it’s up north.

Jamal: 05:03

I think Greenland is colder.

Jamilla: 05:07

I don’t think it's very touristy. Iceland can do things. I think they eat a lot of fish. I like fish. So Iceland one day.

Samuel: 05:15

Nigeria should be the best place for you if you like fish. We have a lot of fish here.

Jamilla: 05:19

I'll come to Nigeria. It sounds very interesting. My housemate talks to me about Nigeria all the time. Maybe Lagos 2022. We can take a Kazient trip maybe.

Jamal: 05:30

Yeah. We actually might take a trip to Nigeria, Jamilla, and I'm sure Samuel will talk more about NDPR consultants and our stake in that. There is an opportunity in Nigeria for us.

Jamal: 05:40

So we might see you soon Samuel.

Jamilla: 05:44

Amazing. So let's get down to it. So what first sparked your interest in data privacy Samuel?

Samuel: 05:50

As you we were told as an undergraduate law is a business. When I finished from law school, I needed an opportunity where I can sound my name. So I got in touch with a lot of mentors. Some of them started telling me about some emerging interests in legal profession. So one of it was data privacy, and one important thing about it is there are not much lawyers from this side specializing in this area. So I decided to venture into it And to see how it looks. Fortunately, building career into it, I would say that my interest has moved beyond the material thing it can offer me to the help or the rights of people, what I can offer to people, or I can offer to masses. So these are the forces driving me in this sector, in this ecosystem.

Jamilla: 06:44

Would you say that then when, when you first looked into data privacy, you thought that it would be a good kind of career money wise, but then as you got into it you thought, wow, this is a really beneficial for people and it's really important.

Samuel: 06:56

I thought about it exactly, and it hasn't even failed in that aspect.

Jamal: 07:00

When you first started on your career, start thinking about your career path. You spoke to lots of different. And everyone told you about data privacy, this hot new topic that's coming and taking over the world. The more you look into it, you're like, you know what? Actually there is something here and then Nigerian brought in NDPR and we can see globally privacy is the hottest industry right now and it's probably going to be the hottest industry for the, at least the next decade. And the more you looked into it, the more you realize actually this isn't just about me making a name for myself and making some money, I actually love privacy and you’ve found a new passion for it.

Samuel: 07:34

Yes, yes, exactly. You got it. That was what pushed me into it, and I'm honestly enjoying it. It's a great sector. It's a great ecosystem here in Nigeria. I would even encourage much more young lawyers to toe the same. Not only will you benefit financially from it, it will also aid you to be on top of your career within the shortest possible times. Because there are not much lawyers in this sector. This sector is even those who have spent so many years in the profession and even the new lawyers so it's places all of us on the same pedestal and we all get our hands around.

Jamilla: 08:11

We've mentioned NDPR, the Nigerian Data Protection Regulation. So what's the landscape of data privacy and data protection in Nigeria currently?

Samuel: 08:21

Every country has a history as a matter of fact, especially when it's relates to any sector or any aspect of law. This area is still taking a centre stage here in Nigeria, and to a larger extent, companies are compliant. There is total compliance, but there is an effort to comply, and the regulators are also making conscious effort to see that people are getting to understand what's to come, what's about data privacy? Because the first step is to even understand the concepts. Not many persons understand what it means. So there is urgent need to make the masses understand what it means. The scope, scholars, regulators, expats have been pushing it. People have been writing, and a lot of persons are getting to understand its now. Some companies are really compliant. I mean, the last time I checked NIDTA’s websites, we have close to 60 companies who have complied with audits for this year. It’s really taking a centre stage.

Jamilla: 09:22

Before NDPR, was there any regulations or legislation in Nigeria around data privacy, data protection, or was this kind of the first one?

Samuel: 09:32

Before NDPR, what we had was legislations. There was no general legislation guiding data privacy in Nigeria, NDPR remains the only one and the foundation.

Jamilla: 09:45

And when was it put into legislation?

Samuel: 09:48

Yes. It's a very new legislation. It was enacted last two years, 2019. It was patterned after GDPR, although not fully.

Jamilla: 09:58

It has some foundations that are similar to GDPR, would you say?

Samuel: 10:01

Yes.

Jamilla: 10:02

That's great. I think that will really help our listeners when we're talking about NDPR they can get to know it a bit more and understand it. You spoke a little bit about mentors that you had and what was the things that they were saying to you and how did you pick which mentors to listen to?

Samuel: 10:18

I would say what's helped me was getting in touch, having a lot of senior associates in this profession. Some of them were not even in the eco system, but some of them already know some persons who are doing very well in this sector. So I met one of them and we spoke, told him this where I want to build my career. He said, I know one guy, get in touch with these guys. They write a lot. They speak a lot about this data privacy, and I'm sure when you get in touch with them they will direct you very well. I got in touch with them through LinkedIn. Met Ridwan, met Olumide Babalola, Ridwan gave me a toolkit on how to go about it. I read it. I asked him, because was talking about getting CIPPE and all that. All the training for the exam was close to $1,500 which I didn't have. So I was telling him, okay now I don't have this money. How do I go about this? Or does it mean I won't build this career? No, that's not it. You can go about read people’s articles, study, go to some online courses, and I mean some online websites and papers, like Future Learn, Coursera, which I did. I went to Future Learn. I took it. I went to Coursera, so I took one course on Privacy Fundamental. Fundamentals of Privacy from University of Northeastern USA, and Pennsylvania. And then I got in touch with a lot of articles from foreign countries and Nigeria. So that was how I started. And so it's been going on for a while. I also got in touch with Mr Jamal, we’ve been in talk for a very long time. I follow him on Facebook. I, I read what he posts there. I also join his webinar and from there I got to understand certain concepts and, I think I'm doing great.

Jamilla: 12:03

How did you come across Jamal?

Samuel: 12:06

There was this post. Sent by one, Nigerian who practices in UK about the podcast he had with Privacy Pro. So I listened to the podcast and it got my interest so I followed the link. The link got me to Kazient’s Facebook page. So it was through there that I got in touch with Mr Jamal and I've been listening to his podcast. His seminar talks, his articles and weekly webinars and question and answer.

Jamal: 12:38

Samuel. How does it feel to be actually featuring on an episode of the podcast?

Samuel: 12:43

Really great. It was the first time I, I got in touch to you. We spoke, I told you I have interest in this area. I really want to be on top. It's still an emerging in Nigeria. Uh, I would like to move fast so that I, I can strategically place myself before this sector gets developed. So we spoke, we talked, and I wanted to join your group then, but I didn't have the financial capability and I didn't lose hope. I kept on following you. The little you get to release free of charge, I get to read it. And then add to the knowledge I have and other articles I read online. And here I am being interviewed by you. So it feels good. I get a lot motivation and motivated even to push harder.

Jamal: 13:27

And I think the thing I'm really happy to hear about is that you're getting a lot of value from a lot of the stuff that we put out. One of the things I realize is, look, there's so much to learn in data privacy, but a lot of it is not accessible for many people across the world because of the financial commitments required. Myself and Jamilla, we spoke about this on the last podcast. I was talking about how the podcast is our gift to the world for people who can't access information that they have to pay for, and we can really help inspire them. And it's great that you've actually followed the link in the podcast to the Facebook group. You're part of the community there, getting value from the weekly free training sessions that we have. And I want to encourage you, if you're listening to, click on the link at the bottom of this, join the Facebook community every week, have a free training session. It's live. So if you have any questions, you have any concerns, you're more than welcome to put those questions to me. I'll be more than happy to answer them. Plus, you get to chill out with people like Samuel, people like me, people like Jamilla, we're all in the group. Everyone that's got a passion for data privacy, that's what unites us. So come and hang out in the group, get to know about privacy. Get to know us. Network with the right people. And we're always sharing great resources there. And you can see somebody like Samuel, who listened to our podcast, found himself in the community, is actually now a member of my team where we have a partnership in Nigeria, NDPR consultants. And Samuel is actually one of those individuals who have recruited and pitched. He's doing really well now. He was almost doubled his salary from where he was previously. And he's now going to be doing what he loves on a daily basis. Every time I speak to him, I see the smile on his face but it's amazing.

Samuel: 15:07

Yeah. Amazing to work with Mr. Jamal. You know that moment you've been dreaming to be mentored and taught by someone, but you don't have the financial wherewithal to get in touch with him, and all of a sudden, because of your resolve and your persistence to keep pushing. I mean, you got a call from him that you should come and work with you. He has seen you are really making effort. You have passion for this, and I feel fulfilled too working with you, Mr Jamal because it shows that with resolve, you can always get out of any situation. Irrespective of whatever obstacle you may have. I had the financial obstacle but I kept on pushing, kept on researching. I didn't give up. Kept on reading. from people, from foreign authors, from local authors, from Nigerians, Jamal’s podcast and webinars, and here I am today, I’m in his team and more or less just like what he told me when I had my first talk with him, that getting into this sector will double your pay and your salary. And I can just tell you that that's exactly what has happened to me. Getting into his team has doubled my pay. Yeah, like twice. So it's interesting.

Jamilla: 16:22

So it's doubled your pay getting into this sector?

Samuel: 16:25

It doubled my pay and it's, it just like some months, some months it's not up to a year I got into this sector and things have started rolling out good.

Jamilla: 16:35

That's amazing. Great.

Jamal: 16:36

So the business is called NDPR Consultants, and it's a partnership with Kazient and a local firm GH Solicitors. We're trading under the NDPR consultants’ partnership, and Samuel is one of our star consultants. So, Samuel, tell us more about NDPR consultants.

Samuel: 16:54

It’s coming to be one of the best consultancy in Nigeria here when you talk about NDPR. We are coming with much vigour and strategy to take over the markets from those practicing it here presently. It's a consultancy firm, specifically focused on NDPR. So we're here to help institutions, individuals understand NDPR compliance, data privacy in Nigeria, the laws, the regulations and guidelines guiding it and to help them in processing data according to the law. And also complying with every other thing related to data privacy.

Jamilla: 17:33

So what kind of things do you do on a day to day basis?

Samuel: 17:36

We put out blog posts. We try to inform the public on the new development in data privacy ecosystem. We try to let them understand the services we can offer to them how it can be of help to them. We have clients, we go about to implement data privacy compliance. We audit for them. We draft privacy policy, we remedial processes, redacting of data and all that. So these are the things we do every day in our consultancy.

Jamal: 18:06

So pretty much similar. Any Nigerian organisation that has to comply with the NDPR. We go there, we have a look at where the gaps are initially to make sure that they're following the principles, and we identify where the biggest shortfalls are, the biggest gaps are, and we have them prioritize, so they have a roadmap is in place, and then we help them to implement the mitigation steps across that roadmap. So it could be anything from training the whole team to developing policies and procedures, to bringing in place technical and organizational measures. And just helping with the whole transparency aspect of everything that they do and as an organization. And the reason clients actually love us is because we make it easy. A lot of consultants come in and they have this really lawyer legally approach and they talk to people and they quote sections of the law and paragraphs and sub paragraphs, and it really gets too much for the businesses. All the businesses want to do is protect their reputation, do the right thing, inspire confidence, cultivate trust, and ultimately secure more business. So we really help businesses from a very practical and pragmatic point of view, and we make it as easy for them as possible. So we tell them, Look, we'll take care of all of the headache and fatigue. Let us take care of this stuff. You do what you do best and the Nigerian market seems to love that approach.

Samuel: 19:23

Yeah exactly.

Jamilla: 19:24

And what's your favourite thing to do as a privacy professional?

Samuel: 19:28

Right now, I can't pinpoint any particular thing, I just want to learn everything. I enjoy every part of it, every single part of it I enjoy. I like writing, but I won’t say it’s the best thing. I get invitations to come and speak in webinars, and I do go, so institutions, if they invite me, of course I will leverage on the opportunity to teach other people so that they will get to know what I know about data privacy.

Jamilla: 19:55

And how has it been training people in Nigeria; would you say the public are generally quite aware of the NDPR?

Samuel: 20:01

There is quite a lot of learning to be done. It's more or less, how do I put it, Even the public that are really interested into these sectors more from the legal profession. All other people don't understand the concepts. Some persons don't even know what we're talking about. But I believe that uh, with time they'll get perhaps with the concepts and it'll become easier for us.

Jamilla: 20:25

Great. Samuel, what are you most proud of in your career so far?

Samuel: 20:29

I'm proud of my resolve cause that's what got me where I am.

Jamilla: 20:33

And if you could go back maybe 10 years ago and speak to yourself, what would you tell yourself?

Samuel: 20:40

I would tell myself I really made a good decision. It's not easy. I'm still very new in the profession. And to have identified an area of specialization is indeed a great one because some person, it gets to take them 5, 6, 10 years before they can do that. And being able to identify the end stage is really a good thing. I mean, I think it shows the entrepreneurial spirit in me.

Jamal: 21:05

There's a number of people out there who are thinking about changing their careers. There's a number of people out there who are trained lawyers and they're thinking about data privacy or they’re they aware of data privacy? What would you say to those people who are thinking about taking the leap of faith, going into data privacy? Why is it the best decision you've ever made?

Samuel: 21:24

First of all, I want to say I, it doesn't matter the specialization of the person's present profession, any person can really get into this sector and build a solid career in it. Whether you a lawyer, computer scientist. Whatever course you read, if you're really motivated about it, you can get your hands around it and, and you see yourself growing. Data privacy is really an emerging area and it's taking the world by storm and it's definitely remain relevant. The whole country is talking about digital economy. That can’t be possible without data protection. The way you make use of individuals data, you have to comply with the set down laws to avoid unnecessary violation of their rights, which has been acknowledged in some other countries to be a fundamental right. Although here in Nigeria, we still have issue with it, but I know that with time it'll be settled. Data privacy will keep on being relevant. In the world as far as thoughts Industrial Revolution, will keep on rolling out things and new technologies, so it's going to be a wonderful thing, any person who is interested to build interest in this career, in this ecosystem.

Jamilla: 22:35

Great. And where do you see the sector going in Nigeria?

Samuel: 22:40

The sector is going wide. It'll definitely come up on top because Nigeria is on its way to pass a robust law. This is still a regulation so we have bills in the National Assembly and please God, some years to come, it will come out. The whole economy is becoming digitized. So any person that has to trade online would definitely comply with data privacy. And then one of those things is that you must have a DPO, DPCO and all that. So any person that can get his or her hands around data privacy right now, we have an opportunity of working in multinationals and any company that will definitely trade online is going to be an important one in years to come in Nigeria.

Jamilla: 23:28

Amazing, thank you.

Jamal: 23:29

It’s not just Nigeria that is moving towards digitalization. It's absolutely all across the globe. And I think that's one of the reasons why data privacy is such a booming industry right now is because we can see countries all over the world becoming more and more digitalized and therefore the privacy of one's data is more and more important. And as things become more digitalized, individuals are deciding where to hand over their information, where to do business, depending on how much they trust them with their personal information. And for companies now, if you just start following the news, many years ago, data privacy, data breaches not something that was in the news. It's not something that was reported on. But now we can see there are blogs, there are articles, there are magazines dedicated to data privacy. So we can see that the public, not just in in Europe, but globally, everyone is really interested in what is happening with their data, how a company is using it. Should they be giving it to them? Should they not give it to them? And in fact, there was a study that said that 63% of people will make a purchase based on how much they trust somebody with their data over the quality of the product that they're buying. And that's when you're getting something back in return. But think about it when you're not actually offering people a product, how much more important it is for people when they're making those decisions. So it's crucially important that businesses are in a position where they can demonstrate that credibility when it comes to handing their data. And ultimately safeguard their reputation, and that's what we have to do as privacy pros. That's what Samuel does. That's what I do. That's what our NDPR consultancy does. That's what Kazient Privacy does in the UK and all over the world, is we help businesses to safeguard their reputation, and we help them to find ways of making sure that they can inspire confidence, cultivate that trust so they can ultimately, secure more business while doing it in an ethical way where people actually want to come and hand over the personal information with them and do business with them. So data privacy, it's about enabling businesses and I think some people in the past had this misconception that it's about telling people what they can and can't do. And then some DPOs, there's some really poor consultants out there who still have that approach but they're not going to last in the industry. The people that do it, the people that are doubling the salaries, the people that are getting to six figures like Samuel are the people who understand that. It's about enabling the business, coming in with that fresh approach. And that's why one of the things we really teach in the business, what we teach in the academy is about having that mindset and one of the mindset sessions we cover, we cover the 23 guiding principles, a privacy professional needs to have to be a world class privacy professional who's going to go out and then really make that difference. And if you see some of the LinkedIn statuses or some of the students on that, or some of the mentees on that, talk about their takeaways from the sessions. You can actually see how inspiring it can be and how liberating it can be for them.

Jamilla: 26:23

Samuel, as you know, we've got the Privacy Pros Academy. We take people in 12 weeks from where they are to becoming a world class privacy professional. Why do you think someone should join the Privacy Pros Academy?

Samuel: 26:38

It’s the best thing to do. The truth is, is not enough for you to teach yourself in this sector. You need someone that knows it all or someone who has seen it all or someone who has been there to guide you, to mentor you, to tell you to explain certain concepts about it. So the sector keeps developing every now and then, and there is this urgency for you to be tutored by someone that's understands it so that you can have this confidence and expertise in explaining some of the concepts to people. Otherwise you may just be running around the whole thing without understanding the integral part of it. So that's the reason why I would advise every person to get into Privacy Pro. Get in touch with Mr Jamal and try as much as possible to learn from the best, he’s one of the best in the field.

Jamal: 27:27

Thank you for those kind comments, Samuel. What I want to understand, Samuel, is we're talking about the NDPR and that's primarily that's what you practice, but you are also very keen, and a lot of people around the world, although they're not based in Europe, they're very keen to acquire the CIPPE certification from the International Association of Privacy Professionals. And for you, if you're listening and you don’t what the CIPPE is, it's a Certified Information Privacy Professional over Europe. Why do you think people are so keen to acquire this accreditation, especially as practitioners in data privacy, even when it's not something that applies to their jurisdiction or locality.

Samuel: 28:05

Okay GDPR has been made to understand and even seen is the standard. So every person that's can understand the concepts surrounding GDPR and its application and compliance, will definitely understand or can easily get his or herself acquainted with other jurisdiction. So in fact it’s more or less, other jurisdictions are making conscious efforts to pattern their own legislation or law according to GDPR. So if you can get your hands around GDPR, you are assured a better place.

Jamal: 28:41

Absolutely. The GDPR is the most comprehensive set of privacy laws anywhere on the globe. Other countries have been inspired by the GDPR to introduce their own laws or to have another fresh look at their set of laws to bring it in line with GDPR. So if you can understand the principles, if you can understand and get your head around the general data protection regulations. It doesn't matter where you are in the world, any privacy regime, any privacy legislation, any privacy regulations, you will actually be able to understand and really provide value to any business in any locality. And the other thing is because the GDPR is the most comprehensive set of laws anywhere in the world. Any multinational company will seek to be compliant with that if they are going to be offering goods and services to the 500 million people who live in Europe and the United Kingdom. And therefore every organization that is multinational seeks to be compliant with GDPR. And when you attain the Certified Information Privacy Professional Europe certification, as Samuel said, you attest, and you are credible in the field because people can see that you have the gold standard. You've got the benchmark of a solid understanding of European data protection laws, which means that you're in a position now to be able to help and guide any businesses. And if you look at 80% of the jobs are being advertising, data protection and data privacy, information governance businesses want you to have the CIPPE or the CIPM, or at least one of the IAPP credentials to even think about taking you seriously as an applicant. If you are listening and you're serious about a job, a career, a thriving career as data privacy professional, or you are a data privacy professional, and you still haven't secured the CIPPE and the CIPM when it comes to looking for your next move, when it comes to looking for your next move, it's going to be very difficult unless you can demonstrate that you have something over and above and beyond everyone else that makes you stand out. If it's not competitive enough already, when you add these credentials to the mix, it not only makes you a credible and confident individual, but it also gives you that authority that you are someone who can advise businesses on a global level, and it will really enhance your career prospects. And what I'd encourage you to do is come and join us for two days. We have intensive training on all of the IAPP certifications, so the CIPPE, the CIPM, and also the CIPT, which is for people who have a keen interest in the technology aspects of data privacy. So come and join the academy. If you can't sign up for the 12 weeks or you don't want to sign up for the 12 weeks, you can come and sign up for the two days, spend the whole weekend with us, and come and be part of our ecosystem. Come and join the Privacy Pros private Facebook group, and of course, for any of you that actually do join any of our courses, you have access to my Inner Circle of Privacy Pros. All of the people that you've met on this podcast or that you've listened to on the podcast, they're all in.

Jamal: 31:38

It's a fascinating space to share ideas, to share updates, and to really network with some of the best privacy pros in the world. How has the private Facebook group really helped you to get to where you are in your career right now?

Samuel: 31:50

It has really helped me to grow. I'm very faithful with the group. I'm always there to check up on the latest updates from you. From the podcasts you've organized with people, from the webinar and all that. Your question-and-answer sessions and I get to learn about a whole lot of concepts and a whole lot of articles you've written, but concerning about Covid 19 Vaccine Passport. It’s really a very fantastic place for any person wanting to really leverage this sector to make impact.

Jamilla: 32:23

Amazing, thank you. Final question for you, Samuel is us giving you the opportunity to ask Jamal a question? So what have you always wanted to know from Jamal?

Samuel: 32:33

Mr Jamal? What were the steps you took to get to where you’re to be reckoned as the king of privacy in UK? I understand you're not the only one practicing in this sector from your country. So how did you leverage on the opportunities you had to be on top of the game?

Jamal: 32:48

Samuel, it’s a fantastic question. It's a very long answer, but I'm going to summarize it. But before I tell you what actually work, let me tell you. I spent years and years and years and I spent over 50,000 pounds investing in my education to get to where I've got to. So it hasn't happened overnight and it's not something that has just happened, just like that. There's been a lot of hard work. There's been a lot of long hours, blood, sweat, and tears is put into it. But from my experience and from the experience of other people who I have mentored, what I've found is a five step formula that can take somebody from where they are now, who really being a superstar and being the world class privacy professional. So number one is you need to have the right mindset. You can't do anything if you don't have the right mindset. My training in NLP, in neurolinguistic programming and hypnosis and all of the life coaching have really helped me to have a very resilient and a very growth mindset. And it's one of the things that we teach as part of the Privacy Pros Academy’s accelerator program, is having that strong winning mindset. So the mindset is the most important thing. Without the right mindset, even if you have the other four pillars, it doesn't really help. So there's five pillars that you need in total, and the mindset is the first one. The second pillar is about having subject matter expertise. So you need to know your stuff, right? It's not just good enough to read your textbook and try and teach yourself. You need to go and hang out with people. You need to go and find mentors. You need to invest in programs to get depth and breadth of knowledge, and you always need to be upskilling. You need to be aware of latest developments. What are the recent cases? What are the recent enforcement actions? So you have that subject matter. The third step is to have credibility, and the only way to get credibility is to make sure you have the right certifications. So I've spent a lot of time, a lot of money, a lot of energy collecting, lots of different privacy certifications. But the ones that make the difference, the ones that industry wants, the ones that stand out are the IAPP certifications, which is why we've partnered up with the IAPP to be able to offer all of their certifications as an official training partner. Those are the first three pillars, mindset, subject matter, expertise, and of course credibility from credentials. Then you have to have the practical experience, like there's no point knowing all this stuff. There's no point in having the great mindset. There's no point knowing this unless you know how to implement this for businesses and not just implement it for them, but do it in a way that is most pragmatic to the business. Do it in a way that causes the business the least amount of pain. Do it in a way where you’re actually empowering the business to inspire trust, to cultivate that trust, to inspire confidence amongst their team, amongst their stakeholders, amongst their customers, amongst their users. So having that strong, practical, and pragmatic approach and being able to implement these things for the businesses is the fourth pillar and the final pillar is all about personal branding, so you need to understand how to carry your brand. You want a reputation that precedes you and you have to really invest and focus on building up your own personal brand. And these are the five pillars that have been the difference between me getting to where I am and not getting to where I am, and sometimes the difference between me and other people in the industry is they're not applying all of these five pillars, and this is why the Privacy Pros Accelerator program focuses on these five pillars because it's the proven formula for anyone who wants to be a successful world class privacy professional and have a thriving career as a privacy consultant or a privacy professional.

Samuel: 36:16

Very wonderful. Thank you so much for this. I'll take you to bank and um, I'll make effort to implement it.

Jamilla: 36:23

Thank you so much, Samuel, for joining us today. We've really enjoyed speaking with you. I think we've definitely learned a lot about the sector in Nigeria and about your own personal journey into data privacy.

Jamilla: 36:34

And thank you to Jamal for being my co-host as always. Been

Jamal: 36:38

It’s been a pleasure and Samuel, it's been lovely speaking with you. I know we speak a lot about work most of the time or a couple of times a week, but it's been really nice to this podcast with you.

Samuel: 36:47

Thank you Mr Jamal. Thank you Jamilla. It's a pleasure.

Outro: 36:51

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Outro: 36:54

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Outro: 37:19

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Outro: 37:24

Until next time, peace be with you.