Fayaaz: 00:00

Within this space of six months, I passed the CIPPE, got now a new professional job, I'm well on my way again of getting where I want to get to. So if the data privacy is what you're interested in, this is definitely, a course that’s going to make a huge impact for yourself. I'm definite proof of going from no experience to where I am in the space of six months. If I can do it, I'm sure, and many, many other people can do it as well.

Intro: 00:20

Are you ready to know what you don't know about Privacy Pros? Then you're in the right place.

Intro: 00:25

Welcome to the Privacy Pros Academy Podcast by Kazient Privacy Experts, the podcast to launch progress and excel your career as a privacy pro.

Intro: 00:36

Hear about the latest news and developments in the world of privacy.

Intro: 00:41

Discover fascinating insights from leading global privacy.

Intro: 00:44

Professionals and hear real stories and top tips from the people who have been where you want to get to.

Intro: 00:51

We're an official IAPP training partner.

Intro: 00:55

We've trained people in over 137 countries and counting.

Intro: 01:00

So whether you're thinking about starting a career in data privacy or you’re

Intro: 01:04

An experienced professional, this is the podcast for you.

Jamilla: 01:14

Hi, everyone, and welcome to the Privacy Pros Academy podcast. My name is Jamilla, and I'm a Data Privacy Analyst at Kazient Privacy experts. I'm primarily responsible for conducting research on current and upcoming legislation as well as any key developments and decisions by supervisory authorities. And I'm also the host of this wonderful podcast. My co-host today is Jamal Ahmed. He is a Fellow of Information Privacy and CEO at Kazient Privacy Experts. Jamal Ahmed is an established and comprehensively qualified privacy professional with a demonstrable track record solving, enterprise-wide data privacy and data security challenges for SMEs through complex global organizations. Jamal is a Certified Information Privacy Manager, Certified Information Privacy Professional, Certified EU GDPR practitioner, Master NLP practitioner, Prince II practitioner. And he holds a Bachelor of Arts in Business with Law. He is a revered global privacy thought leader, world class trainer, and published author for publications such as Thompson, Reuters, The Independent, Euronews, as well as numerous industry publications. Jamal makes regular appearances in the media, on television, radio and in print, and has been dubbed the King of GDPR by the BBC. To date, he has provided privacy and GDPR compliance solutions to organizations across six continents and in over 30 jurisdictions, helping to safeguard the personal data of over a billion data subs worldwide. Welcome Jamal. Thank you for joining me. I feel like I learn something new about you every time I read your bio.

Jamal: 02:42

That's great, Jamilla. Thank you. And you read it so well.

Jamilla: 02:47

Very excited for our guest today. Fayaaz Choudhury is a Data Privacy Analyst and will be starting a new role at RVU next week. He has progressed through the Privacy Pros’ Academy signature Accelerator program and has graduated, having transformed into a world-class Privacy Professional. He is a Certified Information Privacy Professional for Europe, and he holds a Bachelor of Pharmaceutical Science. He has an in-depth understanding of numerous sectors and organizations, both large and small, acquired from first hand operational experience, extending across both the public and private sectors. Welcome, Fayaaz. Thank you for joining us. So, as always on the Privacy Pros Academy podcast, we start off with an icebreaker question. So what's the best holiday you've ever been on?

Fayaaz: 03:32

I guess it's not exactly a holiday, but when I went to Hajj, so that’s been the best holiday experience by far.

Jamilla: 03:38

I was all ready to ask why it was the best holiday, but I think it might be self-explanatory. But for people who don't know about Hajj, can you tell us a little bit more about the experience?

Fayaaz: 03:48

So it's pilgrimage, which is mandatory for people who can afford it in the city of Makkah in Saudi Arabia, around the Kabbah is essentially where all Muslims around the world pray daily, and it's a pilgrimage over there. And to be able to do with my wife as well, that was an amazing experience.

Jamal: 04:04

Yeah and it's a ritual that was established by Abraham. All the people that follow, originate from Abrahamic faith should be familiar with the story of Abraham. And if you look into it, you can see it was actually Abraham who built this house of worship in Saudi Arabia. And for years and years he called people to circumbulate around the house that he built with his son and to offer it as a means of worship. And now we see millions of Muslims every year in Saudi Arabia to perform this pilgrimage. Fayaaz you’re one of the lucky ones that actually managed to complete this. Fayaaz what made it so special for you?

Fayaaz: 04:40

A few years ago, I had a target with a few things which I wanted to achieve in five years. At that point, I achieved two out of three of them and Hajj was the last one remaining. And to be able to do the Hajj. Firstly, I had originally planned to go the following year, because I didn't think I'd be financially able to do it that year. But I kind of made the intention, let me see if I can make it this year. So I've made the intention I want to make it this year and Alhamdulilah a few very fortunate things happened to me in the space of about two months. I felt very fortunate and very blessed by able to do the Hajj this year and then actually doing the Hajj itself. I had previously done Umrah, so Umrah I guess the minor pilgrimage, which you can do so I had already visited the Holy City. So doing the Hajj experience, it's just felt amazing that I was able to do it. And I felt very fortunate I was able to do the Hajj experience. It came at a very nice part of my life, where a few things which had planned all were kind of working in sync. I was very grateful to my creator. I was able to achieve so much and to be able to actually do the Hajj in that same year I felt very fortunate to be able to do and the experience itself was just amazing. To meet and see so many people who've got the same kind of mindset, who all were there for the same sake to do the pilgrimage was amazing and I heard beforehand how many people are there but when you see it with your own eyes, it's absolutely amazing.

Jamal: 05:54

Wow, sounds like an amazing experience. God has willed it, excellent. I'm really happy and it sounds like, Fayaaz, you are somebody who is always overachieving in your goals. You had three goals you had to achieve. There was one outstanding you achieved that a whole year earlier. You joined the Privacy Pros accelerator program, you had a few goals, you wanted to get your certification within six months but now you've actually secured a permanent full time position within the space that you're looking to get into or transition into, tell us more about that.

Fayaaz: 06:21

Probably about eight years ago. So it was after my late father, he had a quite severe stroke and before that he was very mobile. In fact he was in his early seventies and he's probably the most active person who I knew, he’s always on his feet, always wanted to be out and about. After a severe stroke he was essentially paralyzed on his left hand side from the top down and he was permanently on a wheelchair. And I think that kind of helped me refocus what I wanted to achieve and to see someone who is so always active to essentially bedbound and rely on other people, that really kind of help scourge on my mindset of what I want to do and achieve in life. And I think since then I’m very much goal orientated and what I found is after I set a few goals, I was able to achieve them. It actually helped me realize how well it works and to try and carry that out throughout moving forward and it's really successful for me and it's worked well.

Jamal: 07:13

Talking about mindset and talk about focus. One of the things that you participated on during the program was actually the mindset sessions. What did you like most about the mindset sessions and how did it help you to realign your goals?

Fayaaz: 07:26

The biggest thing I think originally was it just kind of taps into what I believe I can achieve. I think along the way I became kind of stagnant. I forgot that kind of drive which I had and I think the mindset session really helped. But from the outside looking in vision I thought, I know this, I don't need it. But then I realize I do need it because I know if I'm not actually acting on it enough, being in that environment with other people as well on a similar kind of pathway, if you have that correct mindset, how much you can achieve and I think that kind of helped me reignite that kind of belief and that hunger inside me to succeed and to set goals and targets which are achievable, set the bar high, not just to stick to a quarter but to actually set a goal high and something which I need to work and strive to, but which is achievable. I think that's probably one of the biggest things that reignite that hunger inside me.

Jamal: 08:14

That's really inspiring to hear about. Fayaaz booked 8 o’clock in the evening after an England match when they knocked Germany out. When does that ever happen?

Fayaaz: 08:26

I didn't expect it.

Jamilla: 08:29

I think Jamal will be taking away the option for people to be booking at 8 pm. OK, Fayaaz so obviously you've done the Privacy Pros Academy, what first got you interested in data privacy? You have a bachelor's of pharmaceutical science, going from that to data privacy seems like quite a leap/

Fayaaz: 08:51

Sure.

Fayaaz: 08:52

Yeah. I think your co-host is definitely part of the reason. So I didn't ever consider data privacy as an area which I really consider as a career. I had been following Jamal for quite a while, so I saw his post every now and then on social media and I was at a point where I was actually looking to try something different, try something new. A few of his posts on social media which I had an interested in data privacy, then he made a post about are you interested in a career change and he had his beautifully worded pitch about how it could change your life. And I think that really just stuck to me. And I thought, okay, this looks intriguing, looks interesting. And yeah, after that I messaged Jamal, then he told me to go and do more research before I speak to him. So then I went back and done some more research and then I found it intriguing. Data privacy, it was actually one of the key things which stuck out to me originally was I saw a Ted Talk on data privacy. This company which has given out loans to third world country, when the individual accepted a loan, they essentially signed off of their rights for their data. So if at any point they forfeited a payment, they literally got bullied into being humiliated that their contacts were told about this person forfeited a payment and that this person owes X amount. And that kind of really stuck out to people. That’s absolutely a horrible experience. And then essentially with how the GDPR, how it protects people's rights when it comes to data and how it treats as a basic human right. And that's probably one of the key things initially which stuck to me regarding data privacy. And then I started looking into it a little bit more and I found it more and more intriguing as time went on.

Jamal: 10:26

Wow, that sounds like a really disturbing practice.

Fayaaz: 10:29

It's horrifying. I didn't really expect, I saw a Ted Talk dates privacy why it's needed. Wow, I wasn't expecting that. But it did engage me and made me look into data privacy further as a career.

Jamal: 10:40

What was the moment you decided a career in data privacy was the thing that's right for you when you're actually going to commit to it?

Fayaaz: 10:47

I don't think there is one single moment in itself. I think it's accumulation of things. And I'm very much a detailed person. So when I understood GDPR, you need to understand the ins and outs, you need to really research something and you need to look at things holistically. You need to not just look at the pixel, you need to step back, look at the whole picture. And that kind of really intrigued me. Not just about understanding how to put GDPR in action, it's about actually understanding people that a lot of the time with data privacy, you need to speak to individuals, need to understand how organization works, how they work. And I think that side is human nature, the personal kind of side of it, which stuck out to me even further. Ultimately, I believe that this is something that I would enjoy and I generally feel, and I'm confident in saying that's something that I'm going to be successful in, I can do well. And I believe that I have an impact on individuals who I work with and any organizations I work with.

Jamilla: 11:40

When Jamal told you to go away and do some research and then come back and talk to him, was there anything about data privacy that kind of made you a bit hesitant? What were the questions that you came back to Jamal with?

Jamal: 11:54

I remember the first call with Fayaaz and he was like asking me all sorts of questions, great questions, when I actually sat down and I was like, so look, the first thing I do when somebody applies is I tell them look, I only work with people a few times a year. And if you're going to be one of those people, you need to be a right fit for me to work with and the program needs to be the right fit for you in line with your values and your goals. And so what I do is I do a deep dive to really get to know and understand where the individual is at that time. And when I was speaking to Fayaaz and I was trying to understand where he is right now. He gave me really good insight and then I asked him about where he wants to get to. And for me, if I can connect the program from where Fayaaz is now to where he wants to get to, and I think that bridge is the right bridge for him, then I'll tell him about that. But at that point, what I could tell is Fayaaz wasn't clear on whether this is the right bridge for him or not to get from where he is to where his goals are. And the reason for that is I don't believe he's done enough research to understand what a career in data privacy means, how important it actually is, and what kind of an impact you will make to businesses and to society through the impact that you have through the work that you do in data privacy. So I said, look Fayaaz, it sounds to me like you're looking for a get out of jail free card or a get rich quick scheme. That's not what we have here. If you're serious about carrying data privacy, I'm more than happy to have this conversation with you again. But the last thing I want is for you to join the program without really understanding what you're getting yourself into. And then three months later, you're back in the same situation where you started, where you're looking for the next thing to do. And I thought that would be a disservice to me, that would be a disservice to him and be a disservice to the program. And therefore, I thought the best thing to do was for Fayaaz to go away, do his own research, come back, and then tell me where he stands now and where he wants to get to, and then let's see if his program is the right fit for you. And then he went away. He watched some of the webinars and listened to some of the podcasts. I think I actually gave him loads and loads of resources to help him, to really inspire him to ask those kinds of questions. And he came back and this time he was like ready to talk business. There was a complete shift in the person I spoke to on the first call, to the person I spoke to on the second call. And he was a lot more like he knew this was what he wanted to do.

Jamilla: 13:56

That's really good. And I guess with you, with Jamal saying, being so thorough and going through everything, I guess that must have made you feel more confident in Jamal, that he's not just trying to take your money for the exam and then off you go, out into the world and leaving you alone. He really cares about who he brings onto the course and who he takes through the course.

Fayaaz: 14:17

Absolutely. I think at least in my social media, at least, I always see a lot of people posting get rich quick schemes. And the fact that he told me to go back and do research, that really stuck out for me. I think it's something which I told a few people, a bit shocked, but it made me appreciate him as an individual. And obviously after that we got to know much better. And I think this really showed, allowing me to have a lot more confidence with him. I really respected the decision to say that and to be very genuine about it. And also in that first call, you gave a lot of general advice as well. One of the things which I think I mentioned, that I was very much speaking about like my goals and what I wanted to do. One of things he told me then, which I actually done a few days after he said what were my financial goals. He told me to write down what my goals are and where I want to be in ten years and speed up into each year and how much I need to earn and achieve together. That's something I done regardless of where I was going at before I even decided I was going to proceed with the course, I thought that makes sense. And then when I started doing that and that's another thing which kind of really stuck out for me. It's something simple on the outside looking in, but it's something which I hadn't done and that made a big impact and it definitely helped build that kind of confidence with myself and with him and the whole program.

Jamilla: 15:28

Both you and Jamal spoke about goals, about where you wanted to be following the program. Now you've finished the program, you've got a new job in the sector and we will speak a little bit more about that later. But where do you see yourself now? What's your next set of goals?

Fayaaz: 15:43

Sure, very fortunately I’m starting a new job in just a few days time and that was a huge plus for myself and I guess moving forward now, I passed the CIPPE, I’ve got the next few years to think about where I want to go next. The CIPM is on my radar, I’m going to be starting a new data privacy analyst role and it's really the next few years I've got my target of passing the CIPM to gain more experience and be in a situation where I can have a DPO role in a few years and to be doing consultancy as well. I feel like I'm very much on track to get therer and just enjoying the experience at the moment of being a data privacy professional as well.

Jamilla: 16:20

Great. And so tell us a little bit more about this new role.

Fayaaz: 16:23

Sure. So I'll be starting with RVU on Monday and RVU essentially is the company which owns You Switch and recently acquired Confused.com, as well as a few similar price comparing websites in Spain and France as well as South America and India as well. It's a rapidly growing organization. I feel that it's a very excellent opportunity for myself, especially where I'm like be a pathway to join this organization which is very rapidly growing. And they've also got data privacy as a major concern for the organization and to hopefully have an impact on it, help them move forward with data privacy with all the other different components of organizations they’re bringing in.

Jamal: 17:02

That's amazing. So you've transformed from where you were a few months ago to becoming a world class privacy pro. You've secured yourself a career with a global brand leader who owns brands such as You Switch, compare the market and other energy switching all over the world and now you're looking to really get stuck in making impacts in that business potentially impacting millions of data subjects around the world and really making sure that you're there to help to safeguard the rights and freedoms that they have over their data privacy. Because these comparison sites, they can collect a lot of information and you want to make sure that it's done in a respectful way. That's amazing.

Fayaaz: 17:38

Thank you.

Jamilla: 17:39

Yeah, it is amazing, congratulations. You know, sometimes I will hear these roles and these companies that I've never even heard of, I've heard of you. So it wow, it really makes me feel like you're having a positive impact on kind of regular people. How do you think that your time at Kazient and in the Academy has prepared you for the role?

Fayaaz: 17:59

Firstly, just as I said at the end of last year, I knew very, very little about GDPR, so I literally started from scratch, I guess. Firstly, have an understanding of GDPR and it wasn't a tick box exercise. It wasn't just to pass the exam. It's that genuine in depth understanding of GDPR, how it affects people, how each component of it works in real life scenarios. And I think that's really kind of help build up my own confidence for myself when it comes to speaking my GDPR, but also confidence that I know that okay, I know I'm talking about. At the same time, I'm aware of how things can change so quickly and how it's not always a clear cut answer. And I think that's one of the things I most enjoyed on the program when Jamal spoke about quite case studies where you have to really think outside the box, understand the situation. I think that's something that experience which came from Jamal when it came to a teacher. That really kind of shined and helped me understand more about GDPR and also myself, I think having that passion Jamal had for it ,kind of I feel reflected onto us as a student and I'd ask my own questions at any time as well as in lessons, outside of their lessons and made that whole learning experience all that much easier. And then with Kazient, it's just having that experience working with clients, I can build up confidence and work with clients from different sectors as well in a very short space of time. I think did wonders for not just gaining in an experience, but just gaining confidence as well, how different organizations operate as well. That made a huge difference for me.

Jamilla: 19:23

Yeah, it's amazing that in such a short space of time, as Jamal said, you’ve completely transformed from one career into another. And that's great. And one thing that you did as part of the Academy is you were one of the guests on the webinar, the Ramadan webinar. I believe that was your first webinar. How did you find that experience?

Fayaaz: 19:43

So that was brilliant to be on a webinar for a sector which I've been a part of and it's been a huge part of my life. And again, I guess similar to this, previously had been a changing part of my life. It was just wonderful and especially being just before Ramadan, to be able to give back to a sector, to a sector which I've spent so much time with, especially in the month of Ramadan on a completely different angle was just wonderful to continue to add value to a charity sector, but from a completely different site, it's just a really nice feeling. And to speak about GDPR and knowing that we have individuals from the charity sector, who I respect very much, who were listening in and to add value to them in a different way where in a different limelight from where they may have seen me before, felt like a really wonderful experience.

Jamilla: 20:30

Yeah, I really enjoyed hosting that webinar as well and I think it brought a lot of value. And if you, our listeners are interested in listening to that webinar, we will link it in the description of this podcast.

Jamal: 20:40

Okay, great adverts Jamilla. We can actually start putting adverts into this podcast.

Jamilla: 20:44

That’s what I was thinking.

Jamal: 20:46

If you look back at your journey from where you were when you first made that phone call to where you are now and let's say for some reason you decided, you are not going to take that leap of faith. Just like so many people who I speak to that don't feel they're worth investing in, don't feel like the investment is worth it and it's not going to work for them. Where do you think you would be right now and how does that make you feel?

Fayaaz: 21:06

I think I'd be probably still trying to work out what I want to do when it comes to a career change. So I already decided I wanted a career change. That's something which I had already decided previously before I even spoke to you. But I didn't really know where I wanted to be going and I think that I would have trying to work out what I wanted to do. Still speaking to other people to try and understand different sectors. Probably spent money on courses and I guess, arrogantly one part of me would like to say that I'm pretty sure ultimately I would have figured out something which I would have liked. But truthfully I'm not sure how long that would have taken me. So it could have been I would have wasted six months, a year, two years, God knows how long? But I do feel that I would have worked out eventually, but it would have come at a time and at a cost. And I think that's probably one of the best things which I've done that and it still kind of surprising shocks me now that in such a short space of time, how much I've achieved and where I am and now how reachable a lot of my goals are starting to feel as you're so much more closer to it.

Jamal: 22:03

Yeah, well, all praise to God for all of the amazing results you've had. One of my mottos, and I kept drumming this into you guys in the academy, was, look, just do your best and God will do the rest. And if I told you six months ago when you first picked up the phone, in six month’s time you’ll have a career, the salary level that you want, significant increase from where you are now with a global company, brands that everybody recognizes, what would have been your reaction?

Fayaaz: 22:26

I would have been quite shocked and I don't think I would have truly believed it.

Jamal: 22:30

Thinking back on it now. How does that make you feel?

Fayaaz: 22:32

Alhamdulilah. I feel all praise to Allah that I made the right decision and I'm seeing the results of it already. I can see where I'm going, and I've got a much better focus and vision of what I can do within the next five years.

Jamal: 22:46

And one of the things that really stood out for me, the other mentees that you were on the program with, they kind of got hired. Like they got snapped off the market pretty much straight away. I remember Chloe, I think within the first couple of weeks, she got snapped up by the other global leading brand in the retail space, and then Zainab got snapped up by a UK company. You took the longest to get snapped up, but your track record, or your record of applying for jobs and getting interviews and call backs and first and second interviews was something I've never come across before. Talk with us more about that and tell us about the stats.

Fayaaz: 23:17

Originally when I started applying for roles, so the thinking when I apply for roles is yeah I'll apply and I'd be lucky if I hear back from one in ten. One in ten would be a huge achievement. If they ask for a interview it's even less likely, but I was very fortunate and it surprised me very much. But can you hear my daughter?

Jamilla: 23:40

That's all right.

Jamal: 23:41

She doesn't want to go bed

Fayaaz: 23:41

My mum has going to the bathroom and my wife's at work, so that's why she's at the door, just waiting for someone to come look after her. She's independent enough not to cry, but she's just curious what's going on.

Jamilla: 23:53

How old is she?

Fayaaz: 23:54

She's going to be two in August.

Jamal: 23:57

She's very sweet.

Jamilla: 23:58

What's her name?

Fayaaz: 23:59

Nusaiba.

Jamilla: 24:00

Hi, Nusainab.

Jamal: 24:02

Bring her on your lap. You can say hello.

Fayaaz: 24:10

Who's that?

Jamilla: 24:13

Looks like a bunny.

Jamal: 24:15

Oh, wow. I don't have a bear. I have a wife. What was Baba doing on TV?

Jamilla: 24:21

Where were you doing on TV?

Fayaaz: 24:23

Representing the data community when it came to the G7.

Jamilla: 24:26

What's Channel S?

It's a Bengali channel.

Jamilla: 24:31

That's why I've never heard of it.

Jamilla: 24:33

Would you recommend it? Is it fun watching?

Jamal: 24:36

It can be entertaining. It might be a bit difficult to follow what everybody's saying.

Fayaaz: 24:41

Their technical issues is the biggest thing that stuck out to me, because everyone was zooming in. They had the host, he lost Connection, and then it's just manic because no one knew what they were doing.

Jamilla: 24:52

I think we should encourage more podcast guests to bring in children, siblings.

Jamal: 24:57

I like it when the children come in and disturb.

Jamilla: 25:00

Like in that BBC interview.

Jamal: 25:02

And there was another one, can I have a chocolate biscuit?

Jamilla: 25:07

I think my housemates done that to me a few times..

Jamal: 25:09

As a prank?

Jamilla: 25:13

Just because she wants to.

Jamal: 25:16

All right, Fayaaz. Welcome back.

Fayaaz: 25:17

Thank you.

Jamal: 25:18

When you was trying to secure your next career, you really had a phenomenal record of your rate of applying for jobs compared to the number of call backs and interviews you were getting. And I think at one point you told me if you applied for two jobs, one of them would call you back and you'd get a first stage interview.

Fayaaz: 25:33

So I think previously, for myself, I applied for jobs, someone got back to me, even with an email response, I feel very happy about it. And then if I get any further, then obviously it's a bonus. With this experience, I was very fortunate that roughly about 80% of the jobs, that I would at least get an email back and of that, between 50% to 60%, I'd get at least a first stage interview for. On one hand it’s absolutely amazing, but to have so many interviews, it’s definitely a huge learning curve and experience and almost gruelling I was very fortunate I could do them from the space of my own home otherwise I would have probably spent hundreds of pounds trying to train around the rest of the country. So this is probably the best year to have so many interviews in short periods of time. The whole interview experience myself, I was very fortunate. My track record, even when I tell some people, they're a bit shocked, they don't quite believe it but I've got some stats. I had like a tracker, which I had, and if I show some of my close people, they're very surprised and shocked at that.

Jamal: 26:25

And what do you think has been the biggest difference between when you've applied for roles in the past and when you've applied for roles now that shows the day and night difference.

Fayaaz: 26:34

It comes to a first stage, it's definitely the CV. I think the CV and LinkedIn, I think probably so underrated and underestimated how the importance of a good CV and LinkedIn program can be. It's the CV and LinkedIn which definitely got me at least to that first stage, so previous stages so because where I'd fail at that side. But, yes, this one is the CV and LinkedIn, which made a huge difference and impact for myself.

Jamal: 26:57

So what you're saying is the personal branding aspect of the program really helped to get you those transformational results.

Fayaaz: 27:03

Absolutely. I think that's one of the huge things about the program, where the program itself is really multifaceted. But it wasn't just the education experiences. The whole program itself was very well thought out and had so many different kinds of sides to it. One day we were going through a certain chapter of the CIPPE, but then at the same time, I was having conversations with Linda regarding my branding and my CV and LinkedIn and that all kind of came together. And the impact of just the CV and LinkedIn just made a huge difference for myself.

Jamilla: 27:33

That's amazing. And everything's happened so quickly within the last few months. I mean, looking back this time last year, did you think that you would be here now?

Fayaaz: 27:41

Definitely not. This time Last year where everything kind of went wrong for everyone. If you told me this, I just would be completely thinking, what are you on about? Because I'm sure just not myself. Many people around the country, in the world were probably just really unsure of their future and where things are going.

Jamal: 28:00

I've got a question for you Fayaaz. You've got this huge shift in career You've completely transformed from the person I met a few months ago to who you are now and for the better. How have friends and family reacted to your transformation?

Fayaaz: 28:12

plus years, in: 2001

Jamilla: 29:35

As someone who went to Exeter University. I'd like to thank your dad for his input to the Halal scene in Exeter.

Fayaaz: 29:43

Thank you.

Jamal: 29:44

There you go. Awesome. Everyone gets to benefit when you make positive changes.

Jamilla: 29:49

Last question Jamal is one for you, so I hope you're seated comfortably, because this could be anything from Fayaaz.

Jamal: 29:55

Hold on. Before we get to my question, I've got one or two more questions for Fayaaz.

Jamilla: 30:00

Fayaaz, make it a good one.

Jamal: 30:02

What was the single biggest thing that you got the most value from through the whole process?

Fayaaz: 30:09

I think it’s just having that refocus and reignition of that kind of hunger and confidence for myself. I mean, that's the biggest thing which kind of stuck out to me. But I think along the way, for whatever reason, I kind of lost that drive which I've had, and I think it's finding that drive. And I think that's probably the biggest thing which stuck out for me from this whole experience, the fact that I feel much more, if I set myself a goal, I can reach it. And I think a lot of the part of the process is to have confidence in going through the process. So throughout whole studying process, I had a lot of exam anxiety. I hadn’t done a professional exam for quite a long time, and for going to the CIPPE, I was very much worried about, okay, I feel comfortable on learning the subject matter, but actually sitting exam, I was really anxious about it, but I had that confidence. I'm going through the process. I'm doing all the steps that I need to do to pass this exam. I'm learning and I think that passion, that drive, and at the same time patience, and appreciating that if I'm going through the process that I just need to have that patience and know that as long as I do a lot of steps and keep the habit up of studying daily and making certain impactful messages on social media and etc. Just to help me later on when it comes to finding my role. But it all makes a difference. It's all the little parts which make the big change.

Jamal: 31:28

And did you feel supported through your whole journey?

Fayaaz: 31:31

I felt I'm not the only one who's doing this, so that is really helpful, but then the individual themselves, they’re all very supportive as well and when you starting speaking up, we all want to succeed and we want to help each other, and that was such a huge thing. And then the teaching as well. I felt that one of the big things for me is to understand things. Often I feel like I want to ask questions and to be able to ask questions directly at any point, not just in the classroom, the lessons, obviously it's much easier to ask a direct question and have a direct answer. But it was the whole outside experience which I think really stood out for myself. But I could ask questions in the community, the Privacy Pros groups, and the Facebook Group as well. And knowing that we've got these individuals who have a whole depth of experience, from people who are starting new just like myself, or to professionals who have been involved with data privacy since, I guess it's conception as well, and knowing that depth of experience and individuals who I can ask in a very open public space about a question really stuck out for me. And I think that though I used it, I think it's knowing that community is there helped me mentally, helped me a lot, knowing that I can always rely on people, just ask questions made a huge difference.

Jamal: 32:41

Great. Awesome. It's great getting the feedback. So one of the reasons I really set up the Facebook community and by the way, that's free for anyone listening to join. The links are going to be on the podcast. So come and join and become a member part of the community. For our Privacy Pros, you actually get access to my inner circle, my network of data privacy professionals where we've got people like Fayaaz who have been through the program, other people who are slightly ahead of him, new entrees, people who are consultants and people who, like you said, have been there for a lifetime. And it really gels together and provides that great environment where everyone is really rooting for you and celebrating your success. And everyone's always bouncing around ideas, sharing the latest updates, sharing their analysis of the same viewpoint based on the industry they're coming from, based on the country they're coming from, based on the culture and the paradigm they're coming from. And it's fascinating to really stay up to date, but one of the things is data privacy is constantly changing, it's very challenging, there are so many updates and as someone that has moved from a sector which is quite stagnant to coming to a sector which is buzzing, how have you coped with the challenge and how do you keep up?

Fayaaz: 33:44

It's rapidly changing and obviously with Brexit and stuff, everything's kind of up in the air and people are worrying, concerned that things can happen. On one side of things, I think I find it very refreshing, but I'm in a sector where it has so much impact on so many individuals and the level of impact it has, I guess to a certain extent how fickle it can be, how one decision a few years in the UK, how it may potentially affect the data privacy sector on one side is really interesting, fascinating. At the same time, obviously things are changing and you need to be able to adapt and to be aware of what's going on. Having a community that is really useful to be able to ask questions and I think especially for myself originally when I had no experience, to be able to ask questions and have people be able to answer questions about very new prevalent news was really helpful. And I guess having resources available like the community as well as podcasts like yourself, makes things much easier to not just be able to keep up to date. I think it's always fascinating, especially when it comes todata privacy, to get people’s insight into how they feel about certain topics and changes.

Jamal: 34:52

OK, fantastic. Thank you for sharing.

Jamilla: 34:54

Are you sitting down comfortably, Jamal? I'm hoping this is going to be a good one. I'm really it's time for Fayaaz to ask you a question, any question you like. We haven't put a restriction on it, but depending on how this question goes, we may start putting restrictions on a question.

Fayaaz: 35:11

You've shared a lot of fascinating cases throughout the course, but I guess for myself the question would be and if you're able to answer obviously considering data. What's been the most interesting case which you work on?

Jamal: 35:27

I have so many fascinating client stories to talk about. What's the most interesting one that I can talk about without breaching ay confidentiality agreements.

Jamilla: 35:35

If you accidentally say it, then we can just get a big bleep across. When Gordon Ramsay swears on TV, you'll get one of those across.

Jamal: 35:45

I would say one of the most fascinating experiences was when I was looking after asset management company and they have different funds, right? And these funds have different portfolios. And one of the funds on a portfolio, a chain of shopping centres. And there was one shopping centre, particularly where it always seemed to be kicking off. Every weekend I would come back and there would always be also fascinating incidents. And there was one particular incident involving some body cam some very strange characters getting up to some very strange behaviours. And the fact is that my client was actually partnered up with another firm and they had appointed Hogan Lovells as their data privacy or their legal counsel. And as part of the data privacy element of that was the gentleman called Eduardo Ustaram. And some of you would have actually read his book and working with him and tackling some of these data privacy challenges. I would say that was quite fascinating to see from a lawyer's point of view compared to the pragmatic and practical approach that we take and see how they complement each other and also how they clash. And then to see what the client actually decides they want to do at the end, where there is a difference of opinion from the fully fledged legal route to the pragmatic consultancy operational side of things, and balancing all of those challenges with senior stakeholders where there's so much at stake. I mean, we're talking about board meetings where there's about 20 people in the room, you've got managers from different shopping centres, you've got people from different departments, you've got a whole PR agency that's giving advice on how to do it. Then you've got the Hogan Lovells team and then you've got my data privacy team. It was absolutely fascinating to see how all of those different opinions and stakeholders wants and needs and demands come together because some people are only thinking about the share price, other people are just thinking about the reputation. The guys that manage the store, they're thinking about the actual safety of some of the shopkeepers and how they're going to answer to the stakeholders about how they're dealing with these things. And when you bring all of those things to the mix, it was a fascinating place and a fascinating environment working.

Fayaaz: 37:46

That sounds interesting. Nice.

Jamilla: 37:49

Great. Well, that certainly was very fascinating. I really like that question, Fayaaz. Thank you for asking it.

Jamal: 37:55

Before we wrap up, I just want to ask for if there's someone who's listening and who's thinking about joining the program and they're very close to taking a leap of faith, but they're just not quite sure if it's going to work for them or if it sounds too good to be true, what would you say to them first?

Fayaaz: 38:10

I'm well on my way again to where I want to get to. So if data privacy is what you're interested in, then this is definitely a course that’s going to make a huge impact for yourself and I’m definite proof of going from no experience to where I am in the six months. If I can do it, I'm sure many, many other people can it do as well.

Jamilla: 38:27

I mean, that's amazing. And I know you guys were speaking earlier how maybe a couple of other people on the course found jobs slightly more quickly. And I was here thinking, after I finished uni, it took me a couple of years to find a decent job and there you are finishing a course and finding a job I mean, that's amazing. As testament to both of you, both how good of a student you are, Fayaaz, and how good the course must be and the Academy must be.

Jamal: 38:54

All praise to God. All praise to God. We did our best and he did the rest.

Jamilla: 38:59

And there you are. What a great thing to end on. Thank you both for joining me today. And thank you again to our listeners for tuning in.

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