Timothy: 00:00

It's okay to say, you don't know. I say, I don't know, like probably three or 400 times a day, and the reason I do that is I'm a big proponent of this idea of, ask, don't guess, don't make an assumption.

Intro: 00:11

Are you ready to know what you don't know about Privacy Pros? Then you're in the right place. Welcome to the Privacy Pros Academy podcast by Kazient Privacy Experts. The podcast to launch, progress and excel your career as a Privacy Pro. Hear about the latest news and developments. Discover fascinating insights from leading global privacy professionals.

And hear real stories and top tips from the people who've been where you want to get to. We've trained people in over 137 countries and countries. So whether you're thinking about starting a career in data privacy. Or you're an experienced professional. This is the podcast for you.

Jamal: 01:04

Welcome to another episode of the privacy pros podcast. Today's episode is a must listen for anyone that's serious about protecting sensitive information while still driving innovation. And we've got an incredible guest who's been on the front lines of enabling data companies to compliantly work within the healthcare space with healthcare data. Our guest is Timothy Nobles, who has over two decades of experience in data and analytics, having worked in early and growth stage companies across the automotive, FinTech and the healthcare industry. Prior to joining Integral as chief commercial officer, Timothy served as chief product officer at Trilliant Health, where he focused on developing expansive predictive analytics for the health economy.

Jamal: 01:48

He also held the position of head of product at Enbold working on provider quality measurement tools to help self-insured employers guide employees to cost-effective, high-quality care. And Timothy is going to be talking to us today about how you can excel as a privacy pro and get real world success that proves how impactful protecting data can be for both patients and providers/ And the exciting opportunities on the horizon for you in the industry. We'll get the inside scoop. So this episode is one that you need to stay for till the end.

Jamal: 02:18

I'm your host, Jamal Ahmed, award winning global privacy expert and founder of the Privacy Pros Academy, where we're building a community of high performance privacy professionals who empower businesses to adopt honest privacy practices. And this episode is brought to you by the Privacy Pros Academy, the world's leading provider of practical data privacy education programs for world class data privacy professionals. We've helped over 500 people around the world to secure their first role, get promoted and even become industry thought leaders. So if you want a thriving career get in touch today And to claim your free chapter of my international best selling book the easy peasy guide to the gdpr Visit bestgdprbook. com forward slash free. Timothy, welcome to the privacy pros podcast

Timothy: 03:03

Jamal, thank you so much. Really appreciate that intro.

Jamal: 03:06

Thank you. Now in healthcare, privacy and innovation often feel like there are odds with each other. How can we as privacy professionals find that sweet spot where we protect patient data, but still allow for the kind of breakthroughs that improve healthcare?

Timothy: 03:22

Yeah, man, coming out hot. I love it. To the point of feeling like it's at odds. I think that's very right. A lot of it is just the way in which the sentiments around privacy and innovation. Like innovation just wants to go. It wants to break things, and privacy wants to like slow it down.

And then you layer on the fact of healthcare and there's a whole bunch of gray, semi ambiguous rules especially in the U. S. Or with the HIPAA laws. The privacy rule in particular can be very confusing. And so the current processes to don't help that at all. There's often very significant and expensive decisions that are being made before understanding what the privacy profiles and the risk of the data look like, and that produces very long timelines.

Timothy: 04:02

Within HIPAA they cite sort of two ways to consider the idea of a successful de identification. One is safe Harbor, one is expert determination, safe Harbors, just remove a whole bunch of fields, 18 of them specifically and that should satisfy, and then expert determination is a statistical model where you're basically reducing the risk of re identification to as close to zero is, mathematically possible.

But that takes a minute, and so that ultimately ends up creating a purchase avoidance. And unfortunately converts a lot of the privacy professionals to that crew that's in the back office with the bad lighting that always says no, and that's really unfortunate.

Timothy: 04:36

And then that's even further compounded by a lot of the, ambiguities and grayness in some of the regulations as well. I think the best way to say it is it's not that anybody in privacy wants to say no, it's just, they very rarely actually get the opportunity to really fully understand what the business ask is, right? And so, under the, how can we be successful part of your question, what are the things I often offer when talking to other professionals who are very intrigued about the privacy space basically just, embrace the constraints, and that actually allows you to showcase your creativity. If you talk to an artist and you say, Hey, go make me a painting and you're like, of what?

They're going to fail, if you don't give them inputs, right? Cause there's just no way to align on it. Whereas if you say, well, I want the beach, I want this, want that, that what you get back is always just something that will just produce sheer wonder. So, when you take that track, if you will, it really turns privacy into more of a shared responsibility across the organization.

Timothy: 05:29

So our responsibility is really around. What is the business trying to accomplish? What are the teams needing to do? What's the business value? What are the market signals, and how can we, ultimately express interest and take the time to participate with product teams, with executive teams, with sales teams, learn their vocabularies and understand what those needs are because then we have the opportunity to learn how to ask nonjudgmental questions, really just seek to understand and from that we have the opportunity to help guide how our product is considered. Potentially tangential, but every data scientists on the planet wants to have thousands, thousands and thousands of data features, meanwhile, at the end of the day, it's like, 10 or 15 of them are carrying all the way to the success of the model. And so, how do we minimize the amount of data, but meanwhile, make sure that we're able to communicate that what we're suggesting is actually turning into contribution to The success of the business initiative.

Jamal: 06:21

Wow. Thank you so much for sharing that. I took so many things away from that, just hearing you on the one question. And what really stood out for me was that it might be that privacy professionals aren't always clear about what the ask is. And so because they're, like, okay, now we have to be compliant. I don't get it. So just know you can't do that. And what you're doing instead is to be truly successful and to really make an impact and add value to the business So you get promoted from that dark room to a better little room with better light Is go and meet people where they are. And this is one of the things I keep saying to my mentees and I drill into my team is We need to go and meet the client where they are. We need to go and meet the business where they are, figure out what's important to them. Why they want to do those things and how can we actually help them to achieve that whilst being compliant, but also being respectful of the data subjects information that we're actually handling and processing. And oftentimes you're actually right, privacy professionals we're probably guilty of not asking enough questions or not being curious enough to really go and meet the business where they are and get to understand where they're going and look in the same direction and move forward that way, rather than where we actually are at odds with each other or odds with innovation. So I really love the answer there. Thank you for sharing that.

Timothy: 07:40

Thank you.

Jamal: 07:41

Now there's lots of methods and you've mentioned two of those that privacy professionals can actually utilize to keep that data protected Whilst it's still impactful for business use cases. Are there any other methods that you can share with us?

Timothy: 07:55

Yeah, I mean, there's a group of them in particular with healthcare safe harbour and expert determination tend to be the primary standard. I think what we're starting to notice especially with AI coming along, the success of probabilistic matching by bad actors is growing. And there was a really brilliant talk from the CEO at Khan Academy a while back about AI in particular, so important for the good actors to really understand it because the bad actors could very easily outnumber us, and taking a little bit of an approach like that and just understanding that okay, well, Threat vectors are always changing, and infringement upon privacy and protection of that privacy is just going to always evolve and always change and always get more complicated and always more severe.

Timothy: 08:38

So therefore the methods and techniques that we have, The opportunity for the toolbox to be plentiful with more than just one or two basic techniques is really essential, right? And so there's a lot of growth in the cryptography space, like homographic encryption and these types of things where like you can, without actually moving the data, understand how to look at it together. There's also really brilliant tokenization schemes that help with the de identification, it's like 80, 20 year old, doing that, you just made a huge leap might not necessarily be 100 percent comprehensive, but you know, Hey, really good. And it's also important to not neglect, some of the physical security and process security based controls too, and the roles that they play in supporting privacy as well. Role based controls, like one of the easiest ones on the planet to touch on is that like, Hey, if you've got, a PHI protected health information sitting in a, warehouse at your company, you probably don't want everybody to have keys to that.

Timothy: 09:29

And there's really simple, basic things like that. It's the same reason why you lock your door at your house in the evening. Data minimization can't be overemphasized, I think in this piece too but, Long story short, there's an ever growing number of ways in which privacy can, be supported and managed to some extent. And personally, I really love that because we're seeing really cool new companies starting to pop up doing very neat things. And one of the kind of the fun things about that is that now we have the opportunity to start learning which one of these is right based on the job that we have to do. And so, business strategy has said, Hey, this is what we're trying to accomplish based on these market inputs, the product team and the engineering teams are activated. Now how can we help them with the recommendations of saying, Oh, well, we can use this type of tokenization technique and we can use this type of augmentation and this type of physical control to help us get to compliance under these regulatory frameworks.

Jamal: 10:20

Great. So what I'm really taking away from that is we need to keep our minds and our toolboxes open, and we should always be adding more tools to it rather than saying, Hey, this is a thing we've always done, so we're always going to do this because the bad actors, they're getting more sophisticated, they're getting more and more intelligent. And so they're going to find a way through that. And what we need to do is keep an eye out on what are the new emerging ways of doing things, what's actually possible to do. So the homomorphic encryption, the tokenization, some of those ideas, and also not forgetting the basics. Just some of those basic controls that we have in place.

Jamal: 10:52

It's very important not to forget about those and make sure that we have that basic good hygiene. I can't remember where it was. I think it was a previous guest. I said, 80 percent of these attacks can be thwarted by just having some basic hybris hygiene in place. And I think sometimes a lot of organizations forget that because it just takes one person to have a challenge. I don't know if you've been reading the news here in the UK, but you've just had a hospital who's been subject to a cyber attack and they can't operate on their patients right now. And they have to go back to all of these paper records. So the consequences can be terrible. And I think oftentimes people forget what's at stake until it happens. And then it's a bit too late at that time. So what you're suggesting there is ways that we can actually get ahead and make sure that the people with the health conditions that we're actually dealing with they don't have to have any negative impact. They've got enough that they're going through as well. This is the last thing they probably need is to be worried about their data getting into their own hands and feeling disturbed by that

Timothy: 11:46

Yeah, no doubt. And to your point, a lot of these attacks ultimately end up being, socially engineered and for instance, one of the, previous shops I worked with, we had these, randomized practices of phishing attacks all the time, never knew about it, and some of them were quite vicious, even for being fabricated. And training and teaching and helping reminds one of the jokes we all have here. It's like a little bit of a sarcastic quip, but it's don't be the headline. And

Jamal: 12:11

For the wrong

Timothy: 12:11

Enough. Yeah. Right. And unfortunately, there's enough headlines right now that there's a lot of ways to bring that in. Several US based health systems have experienced very similar to what you just described recently where, they lose like almost a month. That's a lot of care and treatment that, is potentially deferred or not realized as a consequence of that.

Jamal: 12:30

What I still struggle to understand is why would people want to attack hospitals? And schools to begin with? But that's probably a topic for another day. Can you share a story where smart privacy conscious use of data has actually made a positive difference for patients or even healthcare providers?

Timothy: 12:48

Yeah, certainly. So, what we've encountered at Integral is a lot of founders and, product and market leader, thought leader types within newer companies coming to us saying, Hey, We want to go solve this particular aspect of a care and treatment opportunity, for instance, with the healthcare domain. We understand privacy and we want privacy to be embedded at the deepest DNA level of this.

Help us solve it. And, that part's been really awesome without question. And in particular, we've had a lot of that from LLMs and AI. businesses. And so the quick example I'll use here is that, just take the voice and probabilistically speaking, the voice will actually, offer gender can definitely be mapped and, you can produce a lot of identity centric cues just based off of the voice.

But meanwhile within a voice transcript, you have, sentiment, tonality, frustration, excitement dismay. You also have very specific vocabulary being used to describe symptom or describe treatment or even describe things that could be difficult in following the doctor's orders when you're not at the office, right?

Timothy: 14:06

And so the ability to harvest that unstructured data, but also do it in such a way that is compliant is really powerful, right? So with that, we've been able to work with several companies, one of which actually recently released a virtual nurse that's crushing it from all intents and purposes that we've been able to understand in that collaboration where, that's making a difference.

And it's also helping triage when a symptom is okay, take two of these and call us in the morning, or hold on, we need to fast track you into the office or no, let's get you to the emergency room because this is escalating in the wrong direction.

Timothy: 14:36

And from a real world perspective, I'm sure you've tried to call your doctor's office and it usually takes a few tries to get an appointment and several hours often before you're able to get the nurse on duty to have the opportunity to call you back. Their office hours are just saturated. So the ability to go put this intervention technique freely available for, their patients is a very powerful example.

We're also seeing use cases being powered where provider training is happening. So how do you improve bedside manner? How might the provider do a better job of reading the concerns of the patient and exercising greater and greater empathy. And a lot of this is all being driven again by this unstructured data that historically has been off limits because of, the inability for it to be de identified. The other is also around therapeutic efficacy. A lot of pharmacological Use cases really love being able to have access to this because they're able to hear at point of treatment, point of care what's really happening. And they're also using that to learn how to better support that clinical encounter.

Jamal: 15:36

Wow. So lots of really positive use cases. And it sounds like the more we can learn from the information in a respectful way, the more benefits we can actually bring to patients in the real world.

Timothy: 15:48

Yeah. And to that point computers are brilliant at spotting patterns, and so the ability to give it high quality information that's safe from a privacy point of view, that, doesn't carry the risk of re identification downstream ends up being a really powerful set of evidence, who knows what innovation that can ultimately drive. We're still early days on this.

Jamal: 16:05

Now, thinking forward, what are some of the big opportunities that you're excited about? And at the same time, what are some of the challenges that are keeping you up at night?

Timothy: 16:13

Yeah I've pondered this question a little bit to be quite candid. It's like equal parts wonder and challenge to me, right? Because as we were just illustrating with AI, it's so exciting to think about what's on the horizon there at the same time, it's terrifying to think about what could happen if you're not careful and disciplined and diligent and consistent on that part. The other is actually the dynamic nature, in terms of the horizon, just the dynamic regulatory climate is a very interesting one. Especially here in the United States where. There are state level privacy regulations now that are being printed. We all generally familiar with California's CCPA, which has a lot of very interesting pulls and draws from the GDPR.

Timothy: 16:52

But then Washington state, for instance, recently launched the my health, my data act, which actually has a considerably more conservative interpretation of what identity is than does the HIPAA privacy rule. And so we're seeing a lot more fragmentation like that going on, which is interesting.

And definitely something that we're going to have to contend with in the privacy space without question. I also see a lot more concern from the patient, very similar to what we were discussing earlier is that those expectations for privacy preservation and their identities being protected as part of their overall care or those demands are growing.

Timothy: 17:23

And then, machine learning, data science, neural nets, all that kind of stuff, like all the new care and treatment opportunities that those could unlock, I think are just extraordinarily excited. And I would definitely think about the idea of gene specific therapies and in oncology and rare disease type use cases where like survivability could materially change as a result of what those insights produce.

And in terms of opportunities, there's just so much to learn from the unstructured data. There's a huge opportunity to really get in and understand what working with unstructured data means. And then how does that actually work with machine learning models?

Timothy: 17:54

And, how do you test those things and how do you actually get them, to a place of privacy and compliance? And another opportunity too, is Unfortunately, the headlines have produced it, but the opportunity here is that there's a lot more invitation in the executive and strategic and board level settings about what the privacy posture of the businesses and the privacy practice of the businesses.

And so there's starting to be a lot more opportunity to connect earlier with the inception of strategy and what, where and how can privacy be a major enabler, not a major prohibitor of that idea, which is, at least in my opinion really exciting.

Timothy: 18:28

And then, slip of the same coin, it's like, how do we embrace the opportunities? How do we embrace the idea of the regulatory climate? How do we make sure that we're really deep in that? Really understand it? And are able to do so in such a way that we're not barking at people, but helping our teammates on product and engineering and sales understand the reality of these regulatory requirements in such a way that it's in their vocabulary, fits with their mental models and actually helps them do their jobs more successfully.

And then I think in terms of the up at night the fragmentation of the regulatory standards, and then it's really the semantics of de identification versus risk of re identification. And de identification is really powerful. It's really important, but at the same time, it's really, how do you mitigate the risk of re identification should that data ever find itself out in the wild? Sorry, that was a whole lot of words. I'll stop there.

Jamal: 19:16

This sounds like there's so much going on. There's so much opportunity there. It's just like, where do we put your focus? And what I really loved about what you were sharing there was one thing that you mentioned there is about being a enabler. And not a blocker. And I think that's the attitude that a lot of privacy professionals need to adopt and move away from that bad, almost tarnished reputation that earns you that corner office with the bad lighting of, being a blocker. Like, no, we don't want to block innovation. We want to be part of the solution.

Jamal: 19:43

We want to be part of the forefront, driving this forward and helping the business to do this in a respectful way by bringing pragmatic solutions and respecting that right to privacy and doing what we can there. Now there's lots of opportunities for privacy pros in healthcare, and it looks like the future is going to be even more exciting with the AI the LLM and privacy in general based on what you were just saying there, Timothy. When you're looking to hire somebody into your team or into the organization to focus on the privacy, what are the top three things that you're looking for in those candidates?

Timothy: 20:13

That's a really fun question. More than anything, looking for a critical thinker and also looking for someone who can listen and someone who has an inherent spirit of curiosity. The reality is there's plenty of wonderful training I mean, you're a premier example of that in terms of how to become a privacy professional and here are the things that you need to understand about it, where does that actually come from?

Aid the business though. Like how do you translate that from theoretical and abstract to practical? And how do you turn that into things? And so, there's permanent curiosities and critical thinking and seeking first to understand, like some of those characteristics are just, I don't even know how to put a value on them, of how important they are to contributing to the success of the business, right? Just being stubborn and, very specific about, well, this is exactly the letter of the reg or the law or preference, whatever the case may be. Those things make it hard for the business to move and hard for the business to grow.

Timothy: 21:11

And, each of us that take a paycheck from a shop, like we are in service of that business to help it grow. I mean that's the name of the game there. And so how can we take those attributes and then a specialized craft of privacy and apply that to supporting the business. And so those are the types of things I'm looking for. Of course the more certifications, the merrier but at the same time, certifications they're not always a perfect indicator of, Oh, well, this is the absolute premier talent in market. I'm based in Nashville, Tennessee, music city, USA. And so one of the things that all the musicians always say is like, don't be a jerk. There's also a lot of that, that I tend to look for,

Jamal: 21:42

Okay, great. That's absolutely fascinating what you said is, because you didn't focus on the technical skills, what you said is the soft skills that are more important to you, because you need to hire for attitude, because the technical skills you can teach anyone, although, fair enough, you did mention the more certifications the merrier, but what you've said is what top employers recognize is certifications aren't the be all and the end all. It just certifies that you have specific amount of knowledge, which is great. But what you now need to prove to land those top tier roles is that with that knowledge, you can come and critically think about how to apply that theory into practical solutions that's going to innovate and almost play a role of enabling the business to achieve the goals or the vision that they actually have. You also mentioned that being curious, that curiosity.

There's so many leaders like yourself that I speak to, and they all speak about this one thing is be curious. We want someone that's curious. We want someone that's going to come in and try and figure things out and look beyond the surface and really get to the nitty gritty of things by showing us that they're actually very curious. So asking lots of questions and actually Not being so conservative and traditional and defined, but actually being a little bit more free and a little bit more flowing and really seeking to understand what is it that the challenge is here, what are the business requirements, what are the needs, what does success look like and what can I do To assist that process and be a pivotal part of getting that to where it is. Great. I love that. Thank you for sharing.

Timothy: 23:09

Yeah. And then just as a quick side note, the other thing is that it's okay to say, you don't know. I say, I don't know, like probably three or 400 times a day, and the reason I do that is I'm a big proponent of this idea of, ask, don't guess, don't make an assumption. And the point is no one expects you to have every answer. Everyone expects you to be able to find the answer and be the voice that represents what the options are for the business.

Timothy: 23:33

And it's okay to be in a meeting and get filled with all of this strategic context and practical context about say, what a product and engineering team are trying to accomplish. And then you say, Hey. This is what I heard recap that, but then say, like, I'm not exactly sure yet. Give me a day, give me two days, something realistic, accepting that you have a day job and other responsibilities to that you can take a moment to go think about to liberate and then come back and say, Hey, these are the two or three options that, you know from our perspective, we could get on board with and help you guys achieve this ambition.

Jamal: 24:07

Great. I really liked that. So one of the things I'm actually focused, on my mentees in the academy is helping them to be confident about what they know, but equally as confident about what they don't know, and not seeing that as a negative or as a sign of weakness or credibility, but actually leaning into that and saying, I don't have the answer for that right now, but I'm going to figure it out. And I see my role as their mentor, as the leader, is to really help them by empowering them to figure out how to find the answers, right? I'm not interested in giving you the answer so you can regurgitate it and memorize it when it comes back. You're like, oh snap, there we go. No, no, no, that's not what we want to do.

Jamal: 24:40

That's not what makes a world class privacy professional. A world class privacy professional is someone that realizes they probably know very little, but they will be curious to find the answers, to figure out the principles, to understand what the guidelines are, and where they can go to get the answers, and then come back and present the solution.

Timothy: 24:57

That's it.

Jamal: 24:58

Thank you. Thank you, Timothy. Now, Timothy as as somebody who's been listening to the podcast, one of the things that we get people to do at the end is to ask me a question. So I'd love for you to ask me a question, but I have one final question before we get to that.

What drew you into listening to the privacy pros podcast to begin with?

Timothy: 25:15

My own learning. I mean, it's well respected, one thing that I always encourage folks to do, and I know that you do similar is to, produce a little bit of a network around yourself, reach out, have others. In particular, like, contrasting opinions or contrasting roles, even to you so that you can reach out and have sounding boards and get recommendations and, just have people that can help you think through and, it's always really wonderful and valuable to have two or three of those that are outside of your daily work environment. And a friend of mine actually recommended, it's like, Hey, if you're not on this, you need to check this one out. And I was like, okay, cool. I got to go in there. Which has been, been very rewarding sense. So thank you for, ongoing and great content.

Jamal: 25:52

You're most welcome. Thank you. That's very kind of you. So what's your question for me Timothy?

Timothy: 25:56

So I'll give you two and that, this privacy professionals audience absolutely the best, like, what do you think we didn't cover today that they would be curious about, or as a practicing privacy professional, given your consultancy and other professional endeavours, what are the handful of the most significant obstacles that you see for privacy to become an enabler of innovation. And then like what might be some ideas around how to remove those, reduce the headwind or reduce the slope of the uphill grind.

Jamal: 26:21

Great question. And I'm going to answer the second one because the key challenge I find here is actually the whole attitude and the whole perception towards privacy, towards the privacy program, towards the privacy resources and where they fit into the business. Now when the business is making headcount or thinking we need to invest in privacy resources or build our privacy team, it's always about, Oh, those are the guys that are going to make sure we stay compliant.

Jamal: 26:46

That when the audit comes, that we're checking that we're not getting into the headlines for the wrong reasons. And so it's a very limited view and you almost paint a box around what the role of the privacy pros are to the business. And I think that even though nobody talks about it, sets the tone for when people do come into the program, what their expectations are. And that kind of sets the tone for this is who you are and this is the boundaries and this is what you're going to operate in. And I think the key here and what I found with really forward thinking businesses is they have a completely different perception and perspective on what the privacy team is there to do. And this is the privacy team. They're going to actually help us to come and be innovative and actually get ahead of the competition. And these guys are going to show us how we can show that we're Actually using privacy as a market differentiator to increase our market growth. And that's what the kind of people are looking for.

Jamal: 27:34

And that's what the privacy program is going to achieve. You've got two completely different perspectives, which means two completely different energies. And when people come in to either one of those environments or with those expectations, the results they're going to produce is going to be very, very different. And I think you could put the same privacy professional. But depending on the perception of the environment they find themselves in, the performance and the output is going to be completely different. So I think the key challenge is for leaders for people like yourself, is to change the perspective and the perception of what the privacy program is there for.

Jamal: 28:05

And rather than seeing as a cost center, Hold them to account and challenge them to actually be a contributor to business growth, to business revenue, to increasing market share, to increasing customer satisfaction, and all of the things that matter. Because at the end of the day, every single business cares about their reputation.

You work so hard to build up your reputation. You don't want something as silly as a privacy challenge that you could have foreseen to come and ruin all of that. And at the same time, all businesses, I say apart from maybe a few bad eggs, they care about the people that they're serving.

Jamal: 28:35

Otherwise you wouldn't be serving them. So whether it's in healthcare, whether it's in the supermarket, whether it's on the airlines, wherever you are, you actually care about the people that you're looking after, the people that you're serving. And so we want to make sure that we treat them respectfully and we do the best for them. And when you realize that there's going to be a challenge from a privacy point of view, that your customers, that your patients, that your students, that your clients probably won't like. Good CEOs, that's what they pay attention to. It doesn't matter about whether they're going to get fined or not. It's, Hey, my customers won't like this, or my customers could be upset about this.

Jamal: 29:06

Or this isn't really fair towards my customers. Let's do something that's actually going to make them value us and show them that they feel valued. And so we can have a greater impact and increase our customer base and keep them for longer. when necessary. So that's what I see the challenge as from my experience, Timothy.

Timothy: 29:22

Yeah. That was spot on. I think I've noticed very similar. And thank you for that articulation there.

Jamal: 29:29

Thank you for the great question. Okay, so we've had an absolutely amazing podcast. We've had Timothy who's come in here with two decades of experience and specifically telling us how we can take that sensitive information. And how we can actually use it to drive innovation rather than see Ourselves or position ourselves as business blockers. We spoke about some real results And he shared how it is making a real difference for patients Across the healthcare industry and industries beyond that if we apply that and also Timothy shares some really exciting news about what's on the horizon, some of the big opportunities as well as what's keeping him up at night right now.

Jamal: 30:04

And he's also giving you the top qualities that top class professionals or executives look for when they're hiring privacy professionals into their organizations. So amazing value timothy. Thank you so much for sharing that. If someone's listening and they've been fascinated by everything you've shared, what's the best way to connect with you?

Timothy: 30:21

Yeah. Just feel free to reach out on LinkedIn. Pretty easy to find just Timothy Nobles. And yeah, be glad to have a conversation. If there's any curiosities, just send them over. So I don't bite. Okay.

Jamal: 30:31

Awesome. And if you're listening on any other platform other than our own one, we'll include that in all of the show notes wherever they're found, so just click on the link and you can connect with Timothy and he's a great guy and he will make sure that he has some time to answer your questions. Until next time, peace be with you.

Outro: 30:46

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, like and share so you're notified when a new episode is released. Remember to join the Privacy Pros Academy Facebook group where we answer your questions. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you're leaving with some great things that will add value on your journey as a world class Privacy Pro. Please leave us a 4 or 5 star review. And if you'd like to appear on a future episode of our podcast or have a suggestion for a topic you'd like to hear more about, please send an email to team@kazient.co.Uk. Until next time, peace be with you.