Garvey: 00:00

In Q1 of that year, I'd earned 75K and I said , do you know what? I'm going to build my reputation in this space that I don't have any experience in. Learn the steps to do that. And I want to really empower other people to do the same thing.

Once you start having conversations and engaging with different people and explaining what you want to do, you find that opportunities always open themselves up.

But it's about being brave and courageous to take those first steps, have a conversation. Put yourself out there, not being afraid to fail.

Intro: 00:23

Are you ready to know what you don't know about Privacy Pros? Then you're in the right place. Welcome to the Privacy Pros Academy podcast by Kazient Privacy Experts. The podcast to launch, progress and excel your career as a Privacy Pro. Hear about the latest news and developments. Discover fascinating insights from leading global privacy professionals.

And hear real stories and top tips from the people who've been where you want to get to. We've trained people in over 137 countries and counting. So whether you're thinking about starting a career in data privacy. Or you're an experienced professional. This is the podcast for you.

Jamal: 01:17

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Privacy Pros podcast. I'm your host Jamal Ahmed, founder and lead mentor of the Privacy Pros and the number one international bestselling author of the easy peasy guide to the GDPR. I get loads of questions on LinkedIn almost every single day from lawyers, from people in technology, people in cyber security, people in project management who are thinking about pivoting their career towards privacy, but they're a bit hesitant. They don't want to start again. They're not really sure if they can make it, but they're attracted by the challenge. They're attracted by doing a fulfilled role. They're attracted by all of the benefits. And the respect and status and the salary and the reward that comes with privacy but they're just that little bit hesitant. So I thought I want to create a podcast that's going to actually help you if you're in that position to decide how to pivot, whether you should even pivot and if you do pivot how to make sure that you go on to be a thriving success. And to do that I researched the industry and I came across a gentleman who is going to be sharing all of his top tips.

My guest today to help you navigate your pivoting journey is none other than Garvey Seaton. He is a career architect and a corporate trainer, and he helps professionals build a career that they want. And he also helps employers retain the talent they want. So you don't go away and if you've got a team and you've spent a lot of time and effort investing into them, the last thing you want to do is lose that talent. Through his free weekly newsletter, The Lonely Pivot, Garvey gives career builders actionable ideas to help them build fulfilling careers. Garvey, welcome to the show.

Garvey: 02:50

Appreciate you having me Jamal. How are you doing?

Jamal: 02:52

I'm excited because I've been following some of your content and it's amazing and I've heard from some of the people who have worked with you and so I couldn't think of anyone better to really come and help them.

But before we get started, we're in the holiday season or the holiday season's coming up. I want to know, what's your favourite holiday?

Garvey: 03:08

Oh, good question. I wasn't expecting that curveball. I probably would say Christmas. Often go away, work kind of shuts down, for a lot of people. Everyone's in a good mood. Certainly in the UK it's probaly the best time outside of when it's sunny. So yeah, I'd say Christmas time. Though it's an expensive time for me. My partner and my son are born on the 29th and the 31st. So that week, Christmas to New Year's, is a very expensive time for me. But it's still the most enjoyable.

Jamal: 03:31

You have all year to save up for it. So enjoy spending it.

Garvey: 03:35

Yeah, exactly.

Jamal: 03:35

So tell me a little bit more about your journey. You obviously help people pivot, but how did you even get into that? What happened?

Garvey: 03:41

I guess my journey is similar to many people where you graduate, you go into a job. I think the decision you make at 21 or 22 years old is quite interesting. You base your entire life around decision you made when you were a kid. That's how we're taught. But I was working in recruitment mainly because I guess the sale of money, right? And I earned quite a good wage, built up my level of experience, got to a management position. And then like many, I think I had a quarter life crisis.

So just really asking yourself questions about what am I doing in life? Am I meant for more? What do I do? What's the next step? And I think for a lot of people that causes quite a low mental state. So I had a few years of going back and forth of doing nothing just in my job. Again, I think a lot of people probably can relate to that.

And there's a quote I heard that really resonates for me is people make the change once the discomfort of staying the same outweighs the comfort of change. So a lot of the time we're afraid of making change and it's only once the discomfort of our current reality gets so big and so strong that we feel confident enough to make a change.

And that was what it was for me, that kind of breakdown. And so I quit my job. I went traveling at 29, did a gap year at 29, which is interesting. Traveling around Asia, and that was really just to open my mind and think about what do I want? What am I capable of? Is life really that hard? And just giving yourself space depending on the job you work in. Lots of people work in corporate careers. You're in a melting pot and it's very hard to think of ideas and come up with a plan and dedicate the time you need to a career change when you're pedal to the metal all the time and you're always thinking about showing up for your job. So I had that space luckily because I'd save some money.

And then I came back and for me, the big thing was, what do I do next? I actually started a recruitment company, believe it or not. So even though I was quite disillusioned with recruitment, I wasn't fully brave yet. So I started my own company, which I thought would change the dynamics of recruitment. It did to an extent, but the pandemic was a great opportunity for me where I could really stop and say, okay, do you want to continue to do this, even though it's your own business, or are you going to be brave and start doing the things that you talk about?

And that's when I did. So I completely stopped it. I think in Q1 of that year, I'd earned 75K, which is a lot of money just in one quarter. And I said, okay, do you know what? I'm going to build my reputation in this space that I don't have any experience in. Learn the steps to do that. And so I want to really empower other people to do the same thing.

The decision you made at 21 or 22 to join Industry X doesn't have to define you for the rest of your career. So it's how do you understand the tools and the kind of the framework you go through to pivot into something new. That's what drives me. So I'm really excited.

Jamal: 06:05

Thank you for sharing. So you had this high flying corporate career in the city, doing all of the recruitment for top tech firms and other leading companies. And although the money was great, what you found was it was meaningless. And you got to a point where you started questioning, okay, I've got plenty of money in the bank, but it's not fulfilling me. It's not as rewarding as I thought it would be. And I've only got one life. And if I'm going to spend 40 to 60 hours a week doing something, I want to do something meaningful.

So you went traveling to try and figure out what that was. You came back and you thought, I'm already great at recruitment, clearly. So what I'm going to do is add my own spin on it and improve the game. And then the pandemic came in and probably interfered with some of those plans, but it was actually an opportunity.

There was a silver lining there for you. And it was like, I can actually do something meaningful. And then that's where you discovered your passion for actually helping people to become their best selves and helping them to make courageous and brave choices, just like you did and guiding them to make sure they actually win and make those right decisions.

One of the things that I learned from one of my mentors, and I really resonate with this, is people hesitate to make a decision or people will wait to make a decision until the conditions are right. And the conditions will never be right. The difference between successful people and unsuccessful people, and I've seen this through the people who have pivoted in our Privacy Pros Academy as well, is successful people will make a decision, and then they will create the conditions for success for them to be able to do that. And I know you mentioned some tools and frameworks, and we're hopefully going to get a glimpse of what those things are in a moment. Do you resonate with what I've just said there?

Garvey: 07:40

Oh yeah, 100%. I think your mind is such a maze sometimes, right? And we are always hoping for that. You said the perfect condition, things are going to fall out of the sky and everything's going to fall into place. But the reality is, like you said, people create those situations. I think kind of common phrase is when opportunity meets preparation, right? That kind of ethos is really important, that people think people are lucky, but they're not.

They've created a situation that allows them to receive opportunities. I also think what is really important is just actually putting yourself out there and having conversations about things that you want to do. I think, again, our minds are mazes, and once you start having conversations and engaging with different people and explaining what you want to do, you find that opportunities always open themselves up.

The universe, however you want to put it, creates those opportunities for you. But it's about being brave and courageous to take those first steps, have a conversation. Put yourself out there, not being afraid to fail. These are all huge things, but they all kind of stem from your mind.

Jamal: 08:31

So what I want to understand a little bit better is for people who are thinking about making a change, what are the most common things that drive them to make that change? Cause I know a lot of people I speak to it's they're not fulfilled their role. They're not getting the kind of reward or the respect that they deserve. And sometimes they're stuck in a toxic environment. What's been your experience from some of the people that you've worked with? Why are people looking to pivot?

Garvey: 08:54

I think it's what you said. And I think that's what I touched on earlier. People don't feel fulfilled. And I think as you get older, depending on the age demographic we're talking about, people start to realize that the culture within the firm doesn't necessarily suit them anymore. If I think about my old organization, and when I was a 22 year old guy, working in the city was really cool. Wearing a suit every day was really cool. Going out for drinks on a Thursday was really cool. But as I got older, those things became less appealing to me. And a lot of companies don't really adjust their culture because you're still trying to serve that younger demographic. So you find people get to a certain age and this no longer serves who I am.

So I think there's often a cultural shift in what you want and maybe what your company can provide. That's something I've seen personally and with other people. And then I think secondly, as well, is people change. Like a big thing I do sometimes in one on one coaching is around like motivation. And what drives you, your kind of intrinsic motivators don't stay the same.

Again, the 22 year old Garvey and a 30 year old Garvey or 29 when I left, very different in terms of what was driving me. And I think when there's a level of friction there, then it often causes an issue of why people want to leave. So I think those two are huge things, right? Motivation and then I guess also cultural in an organization.

Jamal: 10:02

Excellent. Thank you. So for anyone who's listening and who resonates with what we've just been discussing and they feel that level of discomfort, or they feel like the values are not aligned with what they're currently doing and they're thinking of pivoting. But they're hesitant. What are some of the things that people are hesitant about when it comes to pivoting their career?

I'll go first. So for example, I know one of the things that people say to me is, Hey, I've got five years, 10 years experience, and I've been doing this thing for a long time. And I've actually done quite well. I'm in a good role. I'm on a good salary. And I don't want to start again at the bottom. I don't want to take a pay cut.

I don't want to go to a more junior role than what I've already got. And one of the things I work closely with my help with them to do is say, Hey, You're not actually going to start at the bottom. You're bringing all of this value to the table, and now we're going to add more value from a privacy and data protection point of view.

So you're going to help even bigger problems on a different scale. But what we really need to focus on is how we position that and how we package that, and how we make sure that you are the go to expert when it comes to this. And not only can you talk the talk, not only do you have the certifications, but you actually know how to operationalize all of that knowledge.

So for the people I work with, one of the biggest hesitations is, I don't want to start again at the bottom. What's been true for you?

Garvey: 11:16

Yeah, I'd echo that point. Again, people are worried. There's a term, a lot of the, like a. Phenomenon when we talk about the experience that we build up, we don't want to throw it away to people value that a lot because I've got 10 years experience. I don't want to, like you said, start from the bottom, but often, like you said, it's not a case of doing from the bottom. It's the case of understanding how you can package it up and leverage that in a slightly different capacity. So that's definitely one. I think I would agree with, but I see from many people, it's another thing that holds people back because maybe in line with money is the golden handcuffs.

It's a bit of a cycle you earn more money and therefore you become more imprisoned in a job or career that you don't particularly enjoy because you can't adjust that lifestyle. So you earn more money, your mortgage gets bigger, your lifestyle increases, you earn more money, your lifestyle increases, and you get to the point where you can't leave because you can't possibly earn less money. And I think sometimes it is a brave decision of saying, can I take two steps back to take 10 steps forward? For me, one of the biggest things, and I see this with clients as well, is when I've got a young child is thinking about the kind of parent I want to be. And I know to be the best parent, and this is the advice I was given as well. I need to be the best version of myself. And if the job, the career that I'm going to every single day is impacting my mood and my ability to show up as a parent, then that's not great for the long run. So I think about, can I take a slight step back financially now for the next 20, 30 years of being a much better parent and also being able to build a career that I have control over.

I like my lifestyle and a lot of other people, they want flexibility and there's no greater flexibility than one working for yourself. And even if you don't. Finding an organization that supports the kind of lifestyle that you want, which most people don't have.

Jamal: 12:47

Yeah, I think that's two of the reasons why most people actually come and join our program is number one is they don't want to take a pay cut.

Garvey: 12:53

And the good news is people actually go through our program. They end up getting 10, 20, 30, some people even get a 50 percent rise in their salary. So that's not a concern for people moving to privacy. Because they can see the rewards are there, provided they can actually demonstrate that they are actually worth the value of that.

And that's what we help them to do. But what you said there about the fulfilment, about that work life balance, especially when someone's got a young family is they need a role that offers that kind of flexibility to be able to balance both those things. If you're constantly drained after doing eight 10 sometimes even 12 hours sometimes when there's a big deadline and then you come home to your family and you don't have the energy or you're spent or you're in a bad mood then what's the point what's the point like the job it's only as good as his notice period and Your family, they're there forever. And when you retire, it's going to be your family that's around there for you. And what you do now and the way you treat your family and the love you give them, they're investments that you're making that you will get a return on if you do these things, but if you focus too much on the money, look. You can have all the money you need in your bank account, but you're not going to be fulfilled later down the line.

And at some point, like you said, and identified with, it will catch up with you. And when that happens, a lot of people, instead of thinking about pivoting their career or identifying what is this thing that's making them feel like this, often will result in developing bad habits. It might be. It might be alcohol, it might be binge watching stuff.

And that then starts playing an impact on their health. And then that translate into physiological challenges, sometimes even develop mental challenges. And so what we want to do is help people to avoid all of those things because of those golden handcuffs or whatever hesitation that they have. That's keeping them stuck there.

If you're in a role or if you're in an industry where you don't actually have the love for what you do anymore, then it's time to make a courageous decision. And we're not saying go and give your notice tomorrow, right? That's the last thing I'd say. What I would say is start looking at what it is that you need to do to make yourself valuable so you can either pivot and get the same level of pay that you are currently getting or increase it and ideally anyone that comes on accelerator program We're looking for at least a 10% increase To make sure they can actually do the job and go home and have the rewards because one of the problems We really want to avoid is those financial challenges. The moment We know everything's taken care of you don't have to go to the shop and think twice about what you're buying You don't have to keep an eye on the bills then things change and you can have nicer things and you can do nicer things and you can actually think more about how you grow how you give back rather than being in a place of desperation.

So I really admire people who actually are brave and courageous enough. And one of the things that I really admire about you is how you help people who've made the courageous decision, whether they've said it out loud or whether they're just thinking and working on it to pivot successfully. What are some frameworks or what are some actionable insights that you can share with someone who's listening now that could really help them to successfully pivot their career to privacy?

Garvey: 15:49

Great question. I think there are lots of different things you can do, right?

But really, sum it down to maybe four things, which I think are really important. And I think something that I went through as well in my journey. The first thing I'd say is values and values has become a bit of a buzzword. People say it, but they don't really know what it means. For me, you're thinking about in your current organization, and we touched on culture earlier, what are the things that are important to me? What does the culture actually mean within this business? So what are the traits, the behaviours that are important to me in an organization?

What are the traits and behaviours that are important to me in the people? And how do I then package that into a new organization? How do I ensure that those things are present in the new organization? We touched on things around, if you've got a young family, like the flexibility that exists around the culture, like there's drinking culture versus non drinking culture.

There's lots of things that are important to you that you need to really get out of your head. maybe write it down and understand, okay, this is a list of important values for me when I go forward into a new company. The second thing, which is something that I'm really passionate about is strengths. I do workshops on these kinds of things all the time. I did a workshop for a law firm this week around strengths and resilience, and the strengths piece is really important. So I guess your audience can go through, which is quite interesting that I give participants my workshops to do. It's called the reflective best self exercise. So very high level you go to your friends, your family, your ex colleagues, people within your life in different capacities, and you ask them to give you feedback of when they've seen you at your best.

So strictly positive feedback, nothing negative, which is where most of our minds go. Most people think about development and weaknesses, but certainly positive feedback. When have you seen me at my best without information, you then build up a it's like a clear picture of who you are at your best based on how other people see you.

And the fact that different people see you in different capacities is really powerful. So an exercise like that, it's all centered around understanding what your actual core strengths are. And then you can use that information going forward in your next organization. You're also able to articulate when you're at your best, the kind of conditions that are important for you, the type of work that's important to you, that aligns with who you are, so you can do the best work.

The third thing for me is confidence and mindset. Again, something that's spoken about quite a lot. There's an interesting quote, most of your audience may have heard about Jay Shetty. I'm not too sure if he's the architect of the quote, but it's I'm not who I think I am. I'm not who you think I am. I am who I think you think I am, which is a bit of a tongue twister.

But essentially, the point is that most of us make decisions based on what we think other people think about us and what they will think about us. And that kind of pigeonholes us down one track. Being brave and making decisions based on what you want and not really thinking about everybody else is a huge obstacle to overcome in a society where we're always concerned about what other people think.

And again, there's another thing around like the spotlight effect, where most of us think people are thinking about us or watching us, but everyone's concerned about themselves. And I think once you realize that nobody genuinely cares that much about what you're doing, you're able to make much braver.

Selfish, some will say, but more strategic decisions about your career. And then the last one is networking. As someone who doesn't really enjoy networking in the formal sense of cocktail parties and wearing a suit, which is what I had to do when I worked in the city. Networking is much broader than that.

And I think my realization around that has been really pivotal. We live in a digital world, so there are parallel social relationships where you can learn from people who you don't necessarily have close proximity to. You can network online, again, build relationships with people across different platforms.

But there's four things I'd say are really important when you're thinking about networking for Making a move in your career. The main thing is around building a career council. So by that you mean you have a mentor, you have a peer, you have a sponsor, and you have a coach. A mentor will be somebody who's in the industry, who understands what you're trying to achieve, and can give you some insight into what they've done, their journey, and how they've achieved it. Some valuable nuggets, and you can go to them as well. A peer is somebody who's going through what you're going through, and I think that person who is at a similar level that you can bounce ideas off of. Again, getting it out of your head is really important. A sponsor again, somebody who's in a position that they can actually pick you up and bring you up.

So it's not just about advice. This is somebody who has who can wield influence if you can find it. And then the last one is a coach. And now I'm biased here because obviously I do career coaching. So if you can afford a coach, that's hugely valuable. But if you can't, then what you want to look for is people in your lives that are good at asking you good questions.

We all have friends who will just big us up if we're feeling down or that their role is to inject positivity. But for a coach in your life, if it's your friend, what you want is the person that will challenge you and ask you really good questions about why you're making decisions. Those four things, mentor, peer, sponsor, coach, really important when you're building your own career council and really very valuable if you're trying to make a change, which is a really big thing in your career.

Jamal: 20:17

Wow. That's super powerful. All of that in one answer. That's amazing. So look, what I'll take away from what you said is when you're thinking about pivoting your career, there's a couple of things that are very important. Number one is to make sure that your values are actually aligned with wherever you're looking to travel to. But before you can see if your values are aligned, you need to know what your values are yourself. So get to know yourself. See what is actually important to you and then you'll be able to make a better decision of where you actually end up or the next place you go to. Then you said we also need to get in touch with what our strengths are and strengths are different from our skills.

Skills can be acquired, skills can be built up, but strengths are the things that you're naturally quite good at, you're giftedness zone. And these are the things that energize you. And what we also want to look at is what are the things that actually take your energy away? Cause energy management is super important, especially if you want to be at the top of your game.

You want to be world class as all of our mentees want to be. And then you also mentioned the importance of networking and the power of networking. And what I am really fascinated about, and I haven't come across this before, is this career council. Your panel of experts or your panel of people that you need to actually make a successful transition. So you mentioned having a mentor and that's exactly what we offer at the Privacy Pros academy is i'm the mentor There's people that would be ahead of you. So we definitely help with that. We have peers there people who are going through the same thing as you, people who are looking to pivot people who have already pivoted, some people who've done it many years ago and some people are also thinking about it. So we can definitely help with that. The coach that's where you come in you offer that coaching and it's all about asking powerful questions and holding somebody accountable.

Sometimes we go to our friends. We go to our family We go to our spouses and we ask them to act as a coach or they act as a coach But oftentimes they only tell us what we want to hear and they don't really challenge us or hold us accountable And having a coach somebody like you can actually see through all of that because you've seen you heard it And you will actually be the best person to help someone get those great results. And then you mentioned you also need a sponsor someone who's got a little bit of power and a bit of influence. Let me get a bit more clarity around the sponsor Is a sponsor someone who's already in the industry, like a hiring manager or a recruiter? Or am I thinking about it the wrong way?

Garvey: 22:19

No, it's more for example, this is the most difficult one to actually attain but it's yet somebody who has influence that could help you Potentially get that new job. So lesser recruiter More let's say you're a lawyer and you're, there's a law firm that you really want to move to. And based on lots of different factors, right? It's are there senior people within the industry that can make introductions for me, for example. So a mentor is more about, okay, just, this is my journey. And this is, these are some of the stumbling blocks. This is how I overcame it. A sponsor is someone who has some level of gravitas and power that they can say, okay, let me introduce you to this person because this is going to be beneficial for your career, potentially my own firm or another firm. So those are sometimes harder to attain, but. In the world of social media, where most senior people actually are open to helping people just don't really do it. They don't really utilize it. That's what we mean by a sponsor.

Jamal: 23:04

Okay. So this is where we go back to what you were saying earlier and networking. If you're networking, then fulfilling that fourth element sponsor should become much easier to attain. Okay, great. So I can see how all of this is starting to come together now, and I can see why people that work with you get the kind of results they get. Thank you for sharing those things. Now, let's say somebody gets two out of four or three out of four. Is that enough? Or do you need to have a four?

Garvey: 23:29

You don't need to have a four because again, We're nuanced individuals, right? So for example, for myself, I'm trying to make a transition and let's say the confidence piece is something that I need to work on. You can still make strides whilst building your confidence. As I said, there's different things that you can do around that. The mindset and the confidence piece, right? It's not mandatory. The same thing with the networking. Networking is hugely valuable if you have those four people, that career council in place, but without that, you can still make the move.

It's just when they all four come together, that's quite powerful in terms of making sure that every kind of box is ticked. But you can still make those moves without every single one of them in that list.

Jamal: 24:01

Okay. Excellent. So as long as we've got at least three of those, then that should be helpful. If we have four, then great. And I am strong believer of the 80 20 rule anyway. So as long as we can have most of this stuff, then I think it shouldn't hold anyone back. And there's nothing stopping you. But if you can find all four of those, then there is nothing going to be stopping you from pivoting successfully and enjoying a thriving career.

Garvey: 24:23

One thing I would say is, whilst we're on the topic of pivoting and what are some of the things you need to actually make it successful. I think what's quite, and you may mention this, but is understanding what are some of the barriers that exist. So there are generally certain things that tend to crop up, which stop people from actually making that transition.

So one of them is obviously fear of failure. A lot of people are afraid to fail in public when they see, for example, going for a new job or trying to change career, whatever it may be as a failure. Almost all of the success stories that you see started from some level of failure. And I think it's just a mindset shift that you don't know what works until what doesn't work. And you need experience. There are people who are really senior in organizations that the idea of pivoting is so scary because they've never tried anything else. And I think just getting over that hurdle of it's okay to quote unquote fail and see it as more of a piece of growth. There's the same by Payal Kakadia, which is basically a failure as a data point.

And I think understanding that any kind of setback is something that you can learn from and then grow and iterate is really important. A couple of other points I'd say as well is persistence. So again, the setbacks that you experienced is really important to be able to, I wouldn't say tunnel vision completely, but understand that this is just part of the journey and you need to continually move forward in order to get any kind of success.

Time management is another one. If you're working a full time job and you've decided that you want to make a pivot and you want to make a change, dedicating the time to your career change is hugely important. Your program, you've obviously mentioned Privacy Pros, programs that are really valuable because they give you frameworks, they give you a support network, and the most valuable thing is you're not wasting time on things that don't actually matter.

If you're in a full time job, you want to change career, time is a hugely valuable resource. So making sure that you tap into someone who can make sure you don't waste that time is really important. And the last one I'd say is planning. So if you're going to make a move I spent two years. saying I was going to leave and didn't leave.

You have to plan it, but everyone's different, right? Some people just jump and hope the network will appear and some people don't. They're more risk averse, but some level of a plan. So setting yourself a deadline, I'm going to leave by this date. That's what works for me. I set myself a deadline. I booked a trip, which was non refundable.

So I spent a lot of money on the trip and the ticket, which kind of forced me into action, whatever it may be for you, but figure it out. But some semblance of a plan is really valuable. Execute on changing career. That's it.

Jamal: 26:36

Wow. Thank you, Garvey. So four key things that stood out there for me. Number one, what holds people back is fear of failure. A lot of people like, this is only what I know. They might have some of this, what we call imposter syndrome, but the confidence is low. And so that really holds them back. And one of the things that we teach on the Privacy Pro's Accelerator Program, when we're doing the mindset, is all about the attitude of feedback and no such thing as failure.

Everything we do as long as we have the right strategy and there's someone guiding us, it's not failure, it's feedback. It's actually going to help you learn something. So identify a gap that you don't have. And once we get clarity of what our strengths are, what our weaknesses are, where we can improve, and we start doing 1 percent every day to get better at that, then it makes us more and more valuable.

So there is no such thing as failure. It's only feedback. Then you said, look, we've got to be persistent. So one of the things I talk about is I have this C7 methodology. And the final C that I talk about is consistency and consistency is all about being persistent, right? So we're talking about the same kind of things there. And the other thing that I really recommend everyone do is if you don't know what we mean by Persistency and consistency and why it's so valuable go and read the book the tipping point .And you will see why it's crucial that you keep persistent and you stay consistent in your efforts. The next thing you mentioned is all about actually being organized and managing your time and time is one of those resources and other assets that I find super valuable because Everyone has the same amount of time in the day.

So some people make the excuse, I don't have the time or I don't have this, but it's all about how you're actually managing that time and how you're managing the energy in what you're doing in that time. So having a plan, which is the fourth thing you mentioned really helps to manage that time, but also setting a timeline in place of when you want to achieve a particular skill, when you want to achieve a particular certification, when you want to start applying for roles, when you're expecting to hand in your notice, if you plan all of those things in, then it makes this whole journey much more fun, much more enjoyable and less scary.

And it optimizes your chances of success. And it's not that we just want to leave our old role and land a new role. We want to go in that role and we want to really thrive. And we want to really show up, be respected, be the go to expert and start making some real differences. So you can empower those businesses to really adopt honest privacy practices. So together we can fulfill our vision and making sure that every woman, every man, and every child really enjoys freedom over their personal information.

Garvey it's been an absolutely amazing podcast. We covered so much value in the time that we've spent together we learned all about some of the challenges of why people actually want to pivot.

And then when people do pivot, we've found the frameworks and the four things that we need to have in place to actually be able to do that successfully. You spoke about the career council that you need to have, where you need to have a coach, a mentor, a peer and sponsors, you spoke about some of the challenges that people will face and how to overcome them.

Thank you so much for coming to the Privacy Pros.

Garvey: 29:28

Appreciate it Jamal, thank you for having me.

And to you listening, if any of this resonated with you, or if there's another topic that you want to hear more about, then get in touch, let me know, reach out on our emails, reach out on LinkedIn, find a way of getting through to me and let me know what more we can do to help you to really make that successful pivot to privacy. And if you're already in privacy, but you're stuck in a role, you're stuck in a meaningless role, you've been offered promotions, you're not getting those things. Get in touch with me and we will see what we can do to help you too.

And Garvey is also here to help you with the coaching. And from everything I've known and everything we've heard about him, we definitely know he can definitely help you too. Make sure you click on those links below and make sure you follow Garvey on LinkedIn. Until next time, peace be with you.

Outro: 30:09

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Please leave us a comment. a four or five star review. And if you'd like to appear on a future episode of our podcast, or have a suggestion for a topic you'd like to hear more about, please send an email to team@kazient.co.uk. Until next time, peace be with you.