Intro: 00:00

I knew I had to find someone to guide me through this because I wasn't going anywhere. I think everybody should have a Jamal in your life because it just makes it better.

Intro: 00:15

Are you ready to know what you don't know about Privacy Pros? Then you're in the right place.

Intro: 00:20

Welcome to the Privacy Pros Academy podcast by Kazient Privacy Experts. The podcast to launch progress and excel your career as a privacy pro.

Intro: 00:31

Hear about the latest news and developments in the world of privacy. Discover fascinating insights from leading global privacy professionals and hear real stories and top tips from the people who've been where you want to get to.

Intro: 00:46

We're an official IAPP training partner. We've trained people in over 137 countries and counting.

Intro: 00:54

So whether you're thinking about starting a career in data privacy or you are an experienced professional, this is the podcast for you.

Jamilla: 01:11

Hi everyone and welcome to the Privacy Pros Academy podcast. My name is Jamilla and I am your host on the podcast. With me today is my co-host Jamal Ahmed, Fellow of Information Privacy and CEO at Kazient Privacy Experts. Jamal is an astute and influential privacy consultant, strategist, board advisor and Fellow of Information Privacy. He's a charismatic leader, progressive thinker and innovator in the privacy sector who directs complex privacy programs. Considered by his peers and clients to be one of the UK's preeminent privacy experts, he has the credibility and gravitas to engender confidence. He's a sought-after commentator, contributing to the BBC, ITV News, Euro News Talk Radio, the Independent and The Guardian, amongst others. Hi Jamal.

Jamal: 01:54

Hey Jamilla, how is it going for you today?

Jamilla: 01:57

I'm good, how are you?

Jamal: 01:59

I'm also great.

Jamilla: 02:01

So one thing I never ask you very much about is the consultancy side of the business. So how are things at Kazient Consultancy? What have you guys been up to?

Jamal: 02:10

The consulting side of the business is keeping us very busy. We're increasingly working with companies that are listed on the London Stock Exchange and what we found is that there's a really big gap in the market for is to actually go and support existing teams and existing privacy professionals. So what you might be familiar with if you haven't looked on the market is all of these companies that say hey, let us be your outsourced DPO and you have a DPO as a service. We don't really get involved in that so much. What we really want to focus on is actually coming in and providing the expert support. So where there's already a Data Protection officer, maybe there's some privacy people in the team, they've got some certifications, they've got good training, they're getting things done but then there might be something that comes up, like a project where they need a little bit of extra handholding, or they just don't have the capacity for a specific technical thing that comes up. So we go in as the experts and we work on the retainer relationships. And that's been proving really helpful because one of the things that companies like these are frustrated with is they hire consultants who really don't have a clue what they do or other times they hire consultants who are very focused on what the law actually says without understanding how that applies for that business in a pragmatic way. And then the other challenge they have when they sign up with some of our competitors is they tie them into long contracts. They get into a relationship with someone, and every time they speak to whoever's going to be providing the service, it's a different person. And no one really gets to know and understand the individuals and the business needs. And so what we found to really help to overcome all of those challenges is to go in and offer expert advisory service, have someone that's dedicated to look after that business and that client and really become like a part of the team on a no strings attached. The way we see it is if we're doing a good job, then you shouldn't need us anymore. So we know we've done a good job if we work ourselves out of a job. And then usually what happens is they still say, okay, look, we still want someone like you around if there's an expert or one of your team members to give us some expert support when we need it. And then they just go on like a basic eight-hour retainer every month and we have regular catchup and whatever questions come up, they send it our way and we guide them the right way. And sometimes projects come out of it and we work through it. And we found that over the last year that's actually been working very well. So if you're listening and you need specific expert support for your team, then get in touch and we can send some stuff your way to help you out.

Jamilla: 04:38

Amazing. Yeah, as Jamal said, get in touch. We'll put any relevant links below. So what's coming up in today's podcast? We are speaking to someone who has been on our Privacy Pro's Accelerator program and is still on the program. And we're going to speak to her about how she's changed her life by joining the program and finding out a lot more. So let me introduce her. Today's guest is Roberta Batzella, and she's a qualified privacy professional and solicitor. She uses her legal training to inform her data protection and privacy practices, produce reports, documentation, and advice that withstands scrutiny and challenge. She has comprehensive experience in data protection strategies and tactics supporting complex organizations to accelerate and strengthen compliance with the DPA, GDPR, and international privacy legislation and regulations. Her expertise spans data protection impact assessments, data subject access requests, subjects right to requests, legitimate interest assessments, records of processing activities, privacy notices, and data breach investigations. Hi, Roberta.

Roberta: 05:40

Hi, Jamilla.

Jamilla: 05:41

Thank you for joining us.

Jamal: 05:43

Where's my hi?

Roberta: 05:47

Hi Jamal

Jamilla: 05:49

So, as we always do on the Privacy Pros Academy podcast, we start off with an icebreaker question. So, Roberta, we saw you last week, or last week to when we're filming this at the RISK conference at the Excel in London. What was your favourite part?

Roberta: 06:04

It was amazing. Well, I met Jamal in person. That was the best part, I'd say, because I have known him since forever. But also it was fantastic because I stopped by and I had the chance to talk to the people who were interested in the program. So they were like, well, they wanted to know how it works. But also they were curious about, like, my personal experience.

Jamilla: 06:25

Did you get to catch many talks?

Roberta: 06:27

Quite a few, I think. Yeah, I'd say so. I think it was a productive day, so to speak.

Jamal: 06:35

Now, you and Jamilla have been building up the anticipation about your story. And there was a video I put on LinkedIn where you were in tears. So we want to find out more about your story, and this is your opportunity now to contribute and share it. I think we're going out to 140 countries across the globe now, so this is going to be amazing. And people will be listening to this for years to come.

Roberta: 06:58

That's so flattering thinking that my story could be of use to anybody.

Jamilla: 07:04

It definitely will be. Definitely will be. The first thing we wanted to ask you is, could you set the scene a little bit about what your life was like before you decided to join the program? How were things going professionally, personally?

Roberta: 07:18

The scene? Yeah. I'd say a month or roughly before I joined the program so what happened was that after several years of contracting, I decided to move to permanent employment, which I was particularly happy about because there was a new challenge in my life. It was a new company, a new job. So I wanted to prove myself. I worked so hard. I was working towards a promotion. I think I did my best. I don't know if it was the best I could do, but generally speaking, but at the time, absolutely, I put all my heart in it. I was waiting for the reward. I was waiting for the promotion that was supposed to happen in August, and it didn't happen. And I was like, okay, let's see what's going on. So I asked, what happened? Things, life happens, so there might be a reason why they talk about it, they offered me on a silver plate, and then they've not given this to me. Well, long story short, they didn't really reply to that. So I was puzzled, frustrated and miserable. And that's when I started thinking, maybe it's me, that I need to address some.

Jamal: 08:35

From what I've understood, you spent most of your career contracting, and then you've got yourself employment, a full time role as an employee. And how long was you in that role for?

Roberta: 08:45

So it was one year and three months.

Jamal: 08:51

So it's a new challenge for you. You're excited, you've gone in there, you want to prove yourself. You've been working really hard, working from what you told me you were working long hours sometimes even. So you really giving everything to your work because you wanted to prove yourself. And at some point, somebody offered you a promotion in August, so you're working towards that. And then August comes along and nothing.

Roberta: 09:16

Yeah, I did it like, I worked hard. I didn't mind. I worked hard because I was working towards a goal and I was trying to figure out what happened because without an explanation, you know, as they told me this and this happened. I don't know. I would have said, okay, fine. I can work without an explanation. I started overthinking, probably. So I was like, maybe I need to get a qualification, maybe I need to get a deeper knowledge of this or that, more experience. I don't know. I started thinking, and then one day, accidentally, I was on LinkedIn and I saw Jamal. Jamal was talking about the UK, like the reform of the new privacy bill, it hasn't been approved yet, and so on. So I was curious. I was like, oh, he was providing tips what could be done, what we need to understand about it. I was already curious about it. He offered me and actually, he sent me, like, an email with an attachment explaining all the main parts of it. I was amazed. He was fantastic. It was written in a very easy to understand, not exactly for a child, but almost. I was like, wow, this is so cool. When you read privacy things and it's always about legalese, and you're like, oh, God, I felt something. I felt a vibe. I don't even know how to say this to you. It's just a vibe. I told him on LinkedIn, basically, and it was like, but would you be interested in having me in one of your courses? Whatever. I didn't even know what it was, but I knew I had to go there. I knew that basically what happened was that I joined the program and that was September. That was the first course, though, and there was, like, the preparation for the CIPPE qualification. I'm working towards this particular qualification that I don't have yet. And I started feeling better from the very moment I signed up. I was like, oh, I feel so much better. I knew I was doing the right thing, but the best had to come yet. So the best part was that at some point, I was like, okay, this program is amazing, but I'd like, appetite, you start eating and then what do I have to do something more than that. I started asking questions. Is there anything I can do? Like, can you please give me an assignment? I need to improve and that I would like to do more because I think I'm not doing enough. And he was like there is a program. I thought, what? There is also I was listening to podcast, so I found out it was the accelerator program and I joined that. For me, it was amazing. Like, look at me now. I mean, nobody can see me now but for you guys but look at the difference between August and November.

Jamal: 12:12

We've just heard all of this cheerful side of you and I don't think many people saw the Roberta I met back in August or September when you joined the program. Can I just take you back there for a moment? And I know you said, look, you've been working really hard at this new role. You kept your head down and you thought, if you do a good job and you work hard, you will get the reward and you get that promotion that was promised to you. And then when that opportunity didn't present itself, like you were adult enough to say, okay, I know stuff happens, but the fact that you didn't get an explanation really started to plague into your mind. How did that actually make you feel?

Roberta: 12:45

Miserable is not even enough. Because it was the self. I said, what did I do wrong? Because there are two people in the room, it's you or me. Whose fault is it? I mean, it has to be one of us, right? So I wasn't sure it was their fault and I started doubting. There's the self doubt that I think the wrong mindset, I think I was limiting myself because I couldn't see the end of it. But one thing I understood, I needed help because I couldn't do it myself. So there are moments in your life when you look, I'm going to make it. Yes, I knew I will make it, but not by not this time. I knew I had to find someone to guide me through this because I wasn't going anywhere, I wasn't improved. After a deep analysis of the whole situation, I understood that the lack of confidence I had was related to the lack of knowledge I was actually craving. It doesn't matter how much you think you know, there is always more to it. You can know more, you can have a better understanding, better clarity, and then knowledge, a confidence, it's all linked.

Jamal: 14:00

Just to be clear so that I know I've understood you properly, what you wanted was more knowledge and you also wanted to develop and boost your confidence along with that knowledge. Is that correct?

That's what you wanted help with?

Roberta: 14:14

Yeah. I thought maybe it's because I don't have the certification, maybe it's an obstacle. Although the certification and experience is important, I think more important than the certification, the certification has a value too. I thought maybe to be senior, to get the senior word next to your name, maybe you need a certification. That particular field you're working on, but basically, I thought, maybe that's something I need to get.

Jamilla: 14:42

So you described how you saw Jamal on LinkedIn, and that's kind of how you made the initial connections. But did you explore any other organizations? And did you think, oh, maybe I should go with this person? And then you finally decided, like, why Privacy Pros?

Roberta: 14:58

I didn't feel a vibe. I'm that kind of person. I need to feel a vibe. I mean, I read the description. The description were all amazing, actually. Not that I think of it. Jamal didn't really describe anything about this course. I mean, he sent me, there was even better, because when you describe yourself, you say, oh, I'm amazing. Okay. That's your I mean, how would I know your amazing? He didn't say anything to me. He sent me his work. It's like the best thing ever. It's like, rather than say I’m an amazing writer, well, here's my book. Tell me what you think.

Jamilla: 15:31

It's more like he's proving it to you. He's not just saying, I'm great. It's like, well, see if you think I'm great.

Roberta: 15:40

That's the thing. I mean, that was my conclusion, that he was great. Yeah. And you like that vibe and absolutely, yes, because, you know, from the post he was writing on LinkedIn, it was 100% me. I recognized myself in every line. Are you feeling miserable? He didn't use the word miserable, but I was are you feeling imposter syndrome? Are you unhappy with your career? Are you frustrated? Oh, that's me. Oh, come on.

Jamilla: 16:07

So you mentioned about Jamal's vibe, and a big part of the Privacy Pros Academy is that mentorship that you get from Jamal. So what is he like as a mentor?

Roberta: 16:15

Oh, my God. How can I say this to you in not too many words?

Roberta: 16:26

I start with a statement, and then I'll expand it. But I think everybody should have a Jamal in your life because it just makes it better. And that's period. And then we can expand that, because it's not just about the mentorship. You feel like Jamal, can I say that? You feel like I found a friend.

Jamal: 16:46

No it’s not weird at all.

Roberta: 16:49

It's like when you go to work and you develop a relationship with your colleagues, which is not just professional, but also personal, which is the best thing ever. So there is a moment when we discuss things, when Jamal explains things to me, when he guides me through my insecurities, my self doubts things, and says don't go there, just positively speaking, just don't overthink as you always do. It's not just that. It's also the fact that we created this Privacy Pros community, which is so beautiful, so amazing, and you feel part of it, and everybody wanted to help. So we discussed things with people who are just so knowledgeable, I mean, so accomplished in their professional lives. And you think, oh, my God, they're talking to me, and they're asking me what I think. They're interested in my opinion because they are so humble. They wanted to learn from others, even if they already accomplished so much. And they also want to help people who are maybe in a different stage of their career because they've been there and they're like, okay, I got help when I was in your position. Now I kind of give it back, or something like that. So this is the vibe. The vibe you get is amazing. And what you get in return, I'm a bundle of joy. And Jamal could tell you the first time we spoke, I wasn't like this. When you start a new adventure, course, mentorship, I was a bit worried because it's a big commitment in terms of time, it was worth it.

Jamal: 18:21

So, Roberta, you were explaining how you had some anxieties about joining the program. It's a big commitment, not just time, also energy, and also financially as well. Talk to us about some of the anxieties or doubts that you had and how you managed to overcome them.

Roberta: 18:37

Well, first of all, I was worried because I always work a lot. So in terms of hours studying and working, I mean, it's a balance that you need to find between the two activities. Funny thing is, since I started the program, during the program, I'm working less, just normal hours, and I have a better balance between my professional and personal life, which I'm extremely grateful. So that was my concern just the time. Well, financially speaking, there was a big investment. And then I thought, okay, but I'm worth it. I said to myself, who better?

Jamilla: 19:19

Exactly. You have to invest in yourself and believe that you're worth the investment.

Roberta: 19:25

If I don't do that, who would? So I thought, okay, I'm the best candidate to invest in myself. Money wouldn't have stopped me. But I must say, I feel extremely fortunate and lucky that I could say yes straight away without asking for more time to address this particular issue. But it's something I mean, if you want it, you'll find a way.

Jamal: 19:50

So basically what Roberta is saying is she signed up for a program which she didn't have any information on, and she didn't know when it started. She was just like, here's my money, take it.

Jamilla: 20:04

She believed in Jamal through LinkedIn, through his work.

Roberta: 20:07

Absolutely.

Jamilla: 20:11

Jamal, just to ask you a question, you're very selective about who comes onto the program, so you want to make sure it's a fit both ways. So why did you say yes to Roberta?

Jamal: 20:22

When I was going on my journey, when I was frustrated, when I was stuck, I went and found I looked for any community that could help me, anyone that could help me. And what I ended up with finding was lots of groups and lots of pages on LinkedIn, on WhatsApp, on Facebook. Heck, even on what do you call it? Not signal, telegram wherever. I went to so many communities, and all I found was people who just wanted to look smart and get paid lots of money, and they didn't care about what it is that they're actually doing professionally. They didn't care too much about actually making a contribution and an impact. They just wanted to get certifications, look smart. Some of them were even sharing answers, like, there's question dumps that was around, people were sharing those. And I just didn't like that vibe and that attitude. It was just like, I take myself seriously. My reputation is very important to me, and it's not just about me. It's like, I'm here to serve. And if I want to serve, I want to be the best I can be. I want to be around the people that are the best they can be. And that's why we've created the privacy pros community where I've gone and looked for like minded individuals and attracted them to be part of this community, because then together we can make a massive difference. And the reason I'm so selective about the people that join is because we want to make sure that the community remains of like-minded people who actually want to serve, who actually want to help others, who actually want to give back and make a contribution. While at the same time, being great at what they do and getting handsomely rewarded for it too. This is why we have this very sometimes it can turn people off a little bit. We have this process for anyone that says they want to join one of our programs. They have to come through an application call and we get to know them a little bit and then say, yes, you'll be a right fit, and here's the offer. Here's what we're offering or actually, there might be a better fit for you somewhere else, and we just recommend somewhere. With Roberta, what I saw in Roberta was what I see in a lot of my mentees and what I saw in myself many years ago is she has so much potential. She knows she has the potential. She's invested in herself. Like, you read out her profile. She's done her Bachelor, she's done her Masters, she's gone and done extra legal qualifications. That's like £30,000 worth of education, her salary, her seniority, the work she's doing doesn't reflect that. And what I used to hate was feeling like a robot, like, anybody can do this. The investment I've put in myself doesn't mean that only I can do this job. They can replace me with somebody tomorrow, and they could just give them a manual and they could do it. And I sensed that frustration. I sensed that thing that stuck in her. And I used to believe once upon a time that if I just keep my head down and I do a good job and I work extra hours and I'm the first one in the office and the last one out, and I say, yes, sir, no, sir, three bags full, sir. They'll recognize the contribution I'm making to the business and they will give me a promotion. And they will give me what I deserve. And I very quickly realized whichever company I went to, that's not the case. The best they will offer at best, is 2 to 3%. The only way to really accelerate your career is to move out of that company where you can actually increase your salary by 20% to 30%. That's typical of the results we see in the accelerator program. But looking at Roberta, coming back to Roberta, I saw that same frustration, I saw that same misery, and I knew she just desperately needed a way out. And given how much she'd already invested in herself, I know this is someone that values investing in themselves. This is someone that values professional development. I heard the resilience and the attitude of how she wanted to really make a mark and prove a point. And I was like, you know what? This is exactly the kind of person we need in the community. Because when you look at the community and the people who are listening from the community, you can see how much of an impact Roberta is having. She is sharing her takeaways, not just in the community, but on LinkedIn. She's getting involved in conversation. She's looking out for, how she can get involved in stuff. And this is exactly the kind of people we need in our community if we are going to achieve our vision of creating that world where every woman, every man and every child enjoys the personal information. We need people like Roberta to go out to these organizations and help them to empower honest privacy practices by providing those pragmatic, business oriented solutions. Too many people or too many businesses see privacy as a blocker. And what we focus on the program is how to get by and how to understand, how to provide pragmatic solutions. So instead of it being a cost and a blocker, how can we actually support businesses in a way where we're helping them to inspire trust, cultivate that confidence and ultimately have a bigger impact and win more trust and win more customers and consumers or clients. And this is where Roberta really started to shine, as she's actually, suddenly the pennies dropped, the light bulb switched on, and she's like, wow. Where have you been all this time, Jamal? And she just can't get enough. Like she joined our ultimate certification program, which is the one I usually talk about on LinkedIn. And that's basically where somebody comes to go through the certification program. But with the certification programs, what our competitors offer is two days of training with somebody who is usually contracted in to read slides out. And that's it. You're left to it. Where our program is different from that is, first of all, you come and join the community. Then you get all of my easy peasy resources. The GDPR is something people need to know if they want to be a good data privacy professional, right? But when you go and try and read that yourself, it doesn't actually make sense. I spent the best part of the year creating that guide, getting it easy peasy, like Roberta said, so that a child can understand it. So this is the first thing that I kind of give to people to warm them up. And then we have the preparation and the revision sessions where people in the community who want to give back spend an hour with the other people learning. Then you come and do actual three days training with me. Two and a half, three days is extended because I don't just read slides to people. We have more like a workshop. Roberta, what was your experience like on the actual certification program? The training, the live element of it?

Roberta: 26:20

Oh, it's completely different from everything I've done before because it's very practical. So it's more about a short explanation to understand what we're talking about, how to understand the concept. And then, okay, let's see a practical example to understand what we're talking about. Jamal and I are doing I don't know, we have a business, so it's very practical. It's like, if we're doing this now, tell me who's controller, whose processor, I mean, it’s just let me understand if you got the difference between the two definitions in practical terms. And then if someone, I don't know, someone else comes in, how would you address that? On other occasions, we actually drafted documents like, Jamal show me, gave me some tips, and I drafted my own documents to address the business request needs and so on, and see what could be done to improve the business. Could it be done in an easier way? Could it have been, I don't know, done differently? How so? And there are differences among businesses, of course. If it's an insurance company, it's a problem. If it's financial services, it's different. So Jamal has experience in different fields. And when he gives you an option to say, okay, let's consider the business in itself. So there's not one solution for every company course. So it is important tailoring your advice and your work, whatever it is needed, based on the knowledge of the market, the company and so on. You got the big picture, and then just to understand when you are and then you focus on the specific field if it's requested. So it's amazing. And the best part is that there are other people I mean, it's a small group, actually, but there are other people who give contribution, like from work life, working life contribution. So these are the best things you can say, oh, it happened to me, I did this and that to solve it, to address the problem. It's amazing. So it's not just something you would read. You open the book. I mean, the book gives you an idea of what it is, but honestly, it's not even related to the reality. It's not a chance. And I noticed after this training, off topic, after this training and now I talked to people who just read the book, I could tell they read the book and they got the certification. So they saw the concept of somewhere and well, but this is in front of you the problem.

Jamilla: 28:57

Because the programme was so interactive and Jamal gave you pragmatic real life situations to deal with that's really you've seen the difference now between you and your colleagues who have just learnt through a book and not had that interactive training.

Roberta: 29:11

Yeah, but they can tell you all about the controller processor, that there is one in front of them and so who's this? Well, you told me all about it, but you can't.

Jamilla: 29:22

They don’t know what it is in reality.

Roberta: 29:23

In reality, there is no link between your knowledge and your application of them. You should be able to do, so you need to apply what you know and if you can do that, well, I don't think the knowledge in itself is particularly useful.

Jamal: 29:41

100%, Rebecca just nailed it and that's exactly the difference between the Privacy Pros programs and just other basic training. Everyone else is focusing on how to get you to pass the exam. I don't care about the exam and I'm very upfront and open about it. I'm going to teach you how to be an excellent world class privacy professional so you can have a thriving career and you can really actually solve real business problems. The theory, the knowledge, that will come, we will touch on it, but we're not going to focus on that because it's about how do you operationalize that theory. Anyone can pick up a book and get that, anyone can Google it and get that. And when the business comes to you and ask you a question and you say, well, article 13 says XYZ, the business could have Googled that, what does that mean? That's the end. But then when you can explain oh actually because we've collected information directly from them, we need to tell them what we've collected, why we've collected it, and how long we're going to keep it for. And if we're sharing with others who they are, the business goes, ah, okay, that makes sense. And they now feel more comfortable coming in having those conversations. So what kind of privacy professional do you want to be? Do you want to be the one that regurgitates theory and everyone knows that I don't have a clue what you're saying. Do you even know what you're talking about? Or do you want to be somebody like Roberta who can actually take the time and understand in practice how to solve those problems and how to get buy in from those customers and how to really make positive impact on the globe?

Roberta: 31:01

You know, like, you open a Pandora box and you start seeing things you weren't aware of before. You're like, oh, my God, this privacy notice is terrible. Why would you do that?

Jamilla: 31:17

Roberta, you haven't finished the program yet. You've already had great results from being on the program. You've got a new role.

Roberta: 31:26

Yes, I did.

Jamilla: 31:29

Congratulations. We won't go into detail about it, but how was it getting a role when you haven't sat your CIPPE yet and you haven't finished the program? Did you expect such massive results so soon?

Roberta: 31:41

No, I didn't. And one of my concerns before it started the program, I was like, Jamal, how long should it take, in your opinion, before I get results? Jamal said, roughly, generally speaking, about six months. We don't know for sure. It could be less, it could be more, but roughly. But six months is a lot of time. It's already September. It's already October. I'm in a hurry, you know, I need to do.

Jamilla: 32:15

You wanted results for the New Year.

Roberta: 32:20

I know what he said to me was sensible and I knew I was being impatient and I was like, okay, six months, so that's fine, but we need to get results by six months because afterwards is not acceptable. Like, no. And then the fantastic things, I have to tell you what happened, because that's the best part. I did absolutely nothing. I just attended the training, all the sessions, never missed one I must say. I did the all the homework. And Jamal said, okay, just after our session, try to identify your main takeaways and post them on LinkedIn, done and dusted. And I just kept doing this. And I started receiving an enormous amount of text from, well, a lot of people, actually, but for the purpose of to answer your question, from a lot of recruiters. So now that is true that recruiters sometimes contact me with some opportunities and so on. But those opportunities were really, really interesting. And in terms of salaries, in terms of companies and so on. The funny thing, the fantastic thing about this one, this particular role that I got eventually is that, it is in compliance. And that was my first thought. Why compliance? What's the link? I wouldn't say none, because none is not true. Compliance is related to privacy and you always comply with a specific piece of legislation. So in this way there is a relation. But I don't have experience in compliance. You might think what happened? What happened was that I had an interview with them and when I went, I was like, okay, you know what? They're not going to ask me about compliance because of course they knew I had no experience. They are going to ask me about my experience, which is kind of what I talk about. And then I talk about the course. I think I got a bit carried away with the enthusiasm and everything. So the feedback was very good. And after this particular interview, they hired me, basically. I had another interview with human resources, but it was more a formality. It wasn't like anything related to the role. It was more or less to get to know me. And they said to me, everything you don't know, you would learn it because we need people who are confident enough, good communicators, and they have a lot of soft skills we are looking for. Okay.

Jamilla: 34:59

Wow. Was it the confidence that you gained from the program that enabled you to go for a role that was out of your comfort zone?

Roberta: 35:07

I think so. I didn't even notice that because I started noticing. I mean, you don't say to yourself, I'm confident, you don't say, you don't say this to yourself. But I noticed I didn't notice what I did. I noticed the way people were looking at me, like, you look different, like a bit puzzled because I look different, like a different person and I change within a month or so, I guess.

Jamilla: 35:39

In the program there's a lot that Jamal does around mindset training. Has that had an impact on you?

Roberta: 35:45

Absolutely but I talked about that during the interview because it was like I mentioned the privacy stuff, I mentioned the studying, but it was I'm not saying it wasn't interesting, but they were privacy experts, so they know what the exam was all about. So I didn't need plus it was compliance, so who cared about privacy? So what I explained was that I needed a role that implies growth because my mindset has been shifted and I was growing and my mind was expanding and who knows where it will go. And I said, don't put me in a box, because if you put me in a box, I will escape. I need a challenging role. So if you want someone who's not going to stay still, that's me. If you want me to have a sit and wait for instructions, I mean, they give instructions because it's a regulated entity, so they will provide instructions which I can follow. Okay. But expect from me that I will give a contribution. So if you're looking for someone like that, I'm the person. And after three months, hopefully that I learned how to do the job, I would do something more.

Jamilla: 37:02

It's amazing. Jamal, what did you think about Roberta getting results so quickly?

Jamal: 37:06

I'm not surprised. I mean, it's not the first time this has happened, because when Roberta joined the program, I could sense how badly she wanted it, if I told her there was a way you can do this tomorrow. But it means you can't sleep for the next seven days in a row. And you can't eat, and you can't.

Jamilla: 37:22

She’d be out there getting coffee and red bull.

Jamal: 37:24

The best thing about Roberta is she has done every single thing I've asked her to do and she's done itto the best of her ability. And this is what I say to every single one of my mentees, like, do your best, and God will take care of the rest. And Roberta put in the effort. She really focused on the mindset sessions. She took everything really to heart. One of the things we get people to do on the mindset session is say, okay, this is who you are now, that's got you to where you are. But if you want to achieve your goals, if you want to be somebody different, then you got to change the way you show up the world. And one of the exercises we do is focusing on the values of your new best self. And Roberta really embodied that new best self, and this is who she's showing up in the world as today. This is why she keeps saying, I'm so different. I've transformed my life, I've changed it's because she is living her best self. Roberta, what's it like being your best self compared to the Roberto we met back in August?

Roberta: 38:15

Well, it’s not really my best. I have some things to achieve, but, yeah, it feels absolutely good. I have a drawing of myself next to me, and I look at it every day, and every day, I add quality, so I achieved what I wanted, but I keep adding qualities to her, so I am where I want it to be, but I have news goals, so I'm not stopping.

Jamal: 38:42

Yeah, we've done a lot of talking, so let me just sum up, because some people might be getting a bit lost where we are right now. So everybody meet Roberta. We met Roberta back in August, and Roberta was stuckk and frustrated. She wanted a better role. She wanted more responsibility. She wanted more recognition, and she just wanted to be given the chance to prove herself, and that wasn't happening in her current role. And she was not happy with that, being unsatisfied with that. She went on a mission to look for something or somebody that could help her to then feel fulfilled, get the challenge that she wanted with the level of reward that she deserved, based on how hard she works and everything she's done. And somehow on LinkedIn, she came across the Privacy Pros academy. She joined one of our programs, and through the program, she managed to shift her mindset, pick up the practical tools, gain that confidence, and then she got an offer from a multinational company that increased her salary by over 25%. It's given her the responsibility that she wants. And it's also people who value the mindset that she brings to the table. Because although she didn't have a lot of the experience they was after, they recognized Roberta has the mindset to be able to put in the effort to be able to really perform outstandingly with any of those things. And that's the risk they've taken with Roberta, because they were sure that she is a good bet to take because of the attitude and the confidence and the way she was able to explain things and the way she was able to draw into the privacy knowledge for the privacy part of that compliance role. Roberta, I'm going to hand over to you to add whatever you want to add to that.

Roberta: 40:16

I remember, you remember, Jamal, when you asked me, how would you be feeling at the end of the program? Would you be happy if you managed to achieve? And I was like, yeah, I'll be happy, I'm sure. And then after that, I would set a new goal.

Jamal: 40:30

Yeah, that's exactly it. It's a journey, isn't it? No destination. We have to go from one level, one step to a time. Because if you get to where you are now and you stand still, then guess what? You're going to be left behind. Because the world doesn't stop moving ahead.

Roberta: 40:43

Yes, I know it has been a beautiful journey, but, you know, like, I didn't have a specific expectation. They exceeded all I could think of, honestly. And you told me, within a month after joining the program, you will have this amazing job and you will feel so much better. And it affects in everything in my life, because now I'm working less, I'm studying more, I'm focused on everything. It's all linked.

Jamilla: 41:14

Roberta if there's someone who's listening and they're thinking, should I join the program? Is it worth it? Should I do it? What would you say to them?

Roberta: 41:22

Do it. Don't overthink this. Just follow, feel the vibe, because you feel it. I'm sure I don't have to convince anybody. You go and if you meet Jamal in person, you will feel it. If you look at his post, you will feel it. It's just a black and white and if you don't feel it there’s something wrong with you.

Jamal: 41:47

If you see me using the hashtag feel the vibe, it's inspired by you.

Jamilla: 41:50

Yeah.

Roberta: 41:51

No, I think everybody's journey is different, so I think you need to understand it yourself. I talked to people who were like, what can I do to improve my current situation? I say, look at what you could do. I can't tell them join the program. They will realize that eventually, because it has to be your decision. I can tell you about my experience. What I do is talking about my experience, to let them make to the same conclusion I reached, because I decided myself because someone tells you or you have to do this, this is not how it works. You need to find your way. And that's what Jamal does. It doesn't say, come sign up for my courses. It doesn't say that. He just shows up and you're like, well, how can I let him go? And that's exactly what you have to do. After you do this, you wouldn't be chasing any job. You would say I’m here. How could you think, how you could you possibly let me go. And that's the spirit and that's the mindset. And that shifted completely. I'm here. You know what? Be quick. I won't be forever. I won't be here forever. If I could go back in time where I was before and I could give myself a piece of advice, I would say to myself, cut yourself from slack. Don't be hard on yourself. Because everybody has their own journey and you will make it eventually. You don't know how exactly it's going to work. Everybody needs to find their own way. So it doesn't matter if you are not where you want it to be right now. You will be. You will be. You will see it. But keep going. Don't give up. It's like I was thinking of this. I say you go to the gym every now and then and say, I don't see a result. It's not true. You're building up. You will see it eventually. Not not today, not tomorrow. It's just that you go every now and then and you can't see your abs straight away. You need to keep going. And you will see them eventually. And that's exactly how it is. You don't give up because you will see it. You're just building up what you were doing And it's like you're building something. It's just a piece by piece. And you can't see it yet because there are other pieces that needed to be added. But it's there definitely.

Jamilla: 44:22

Like the gym, often other people can see it before you do. Other people can start noticing this.

Roberta: 44:28

Surround yourself with the right people to positive people who can maybe point it out that you might need I don't know, to change certain things. Sometimes you're not able to do it yourself.

Jamilla: 44:42

Some very wise words from you there Roberta. If anyone's listening, feel the vibe and grab the opportunity.

Jamal: 44:51

How would you describe your experience so far using three words?

Roberta: 44:55

Three words?

Jamilla: 44:58

You can take some time to think if you need.

Roberta: 45:00

Three words is a bit, can I use adjectives?

Jamal: 45:05

Yes.

Roberta: 45:06

Well, I could say but rewarding, it doesn't really describe. Let's go with it for now.

Jamilla: 45:15

But it's hard to describe how much this has done for you in just three words. Is that what you're feeling?

Roberta: 45:23

Well, if I say I'm happy and that I am happy, literally three words that might be like I'm a new person. I am the person I always wanted to be. I am the person I drew. Okay. It's more the three words. I am the person. I drew. When you think of yourself, I want to be this. And you make a very basic drawing of myself, but with all the qualities, I am the person, I am the person.

Jamilla: 45:55

That's amazing. Absolutely amazing. I think that's better than the three words. It was three sentences, but they were a great three sentences. So the last question for you, Roberta. We like to give our guest the opportunity to ask Jamal a question so you can ask him anything you've ever wanted to know about him, where he gets his beard trimmed?

Roberta: 46:28

I'm curious. I know your story because you told me, you summarize your career and everything. How did you come up with the fantastic idea of not the accelerator program, that I know. What shifted in you from when you were an employee for a very cool company, actually amazing companies, and decided to be independent, to start your own business? What shifted in your mind? In your mindset?

Jamal: 47:01

A little bit like you Roberta, I don't like being put down in a box. I don't like being micromanaged. And I could see that I could actually have a greater impact rather than being sat in one seat and in one box. And becoming a consultant gave me the opportunity to serve more people, but also to actually build a team so we can have a greater impact and we can serve more than one industry and more than one company. So that's basically what made me have that shift. It was also because I wasn't comfortable, no disrespect to anyone listening, who's a manager or who does these things, but doing all of these performance reviews, which are useless and waste time and office politics and all of this stuff that gets in the way of actually doing stuff, I didn't have an appetite for that. I just wanted to go and make a positive impact, make a difference and get results. So that's basically what made that shift into moving from being employed for respectable companies with comfortable lifestyles and actually going and putting making myself be uncomfortable, taking the risk. I realized I could have a better impact on not just me and my family, but the world as a whole by going and taking action.

Roberta: 48:12

At the very beginning, I think it was a bit challenging. I mean, starting a new business, but then what?

Jamal: 48:20

Oh, my gosh, it's scary. Like, starting a new business isn't as scary as trying to enter the privacy industry, especially in the UK, because when I first came across the privacy industry, it was dominated by white, middle class, middle aged lawyers and they wanted to do their best to keep people out. And there was almost this thing, if you go back a few years on LinkedIn, you can see there was almost like this clique, where this is our clique and anyone that wants to come into it, anyone that thinks they're going to get into it, they were bullied out. And I had to really go through a lot of struggles and be very resilient to break through. And I'm so grateful I've managed not to just to open that door, but smash the door wide open. And if you notice, I do my best to help people from ethnic minorities, people from diverse backgrounds, especially women, and I'm doing my best to bring them through into this industry. Not just to come in, but take the elevator all the way to the top.

Roberta: 49:17

t them all during the RISK of: 2022

Jamilla: 49:26

Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today, Roberta. It's been such a pleasure speaking to you.

Roberta: 49:32

I was so happy to be here.

Jamal: 49:35

Thank you, Roberta. You've been absolutely inspiring. Your journey is transformational, and it's so inspiring when other people in the community are talking about it and the fact that you've now come here and shared it with the rest of the world as well.

Outro: 49:50

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Outro: 49:58

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Outro: 50:03

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Outro: 50:10

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Until next time, peace be with you.