Punit: 00:00

You cannot sit and say things will come into my lap. I was the best talent in the band. There was a manager who wanted to fire me. You need to ask shamelessly. When you want to do something, you will find the time and when you don't want to do something, you will find an excuse.

Intro: 00:17

Are you ready to know what you don't know about Privacy Pros? Then you're in the right place.

Intro: 00:22

Welcome to the Privacy Pros Academy podcast by Kazient Privacy Experts. The podcast to launch progress and excel your career as a privacy pro.

Intro: 00:33

Hear about the latest news and developments in the world of privacy.

Intro: 00:38

Discover fascinating insights from leading global privacy

Intro: 00:41

Professionals and hear real stories and top tips from the people who've been where you want to get to.

Intro: 00:48

We're an official IAPP training partner.

Intro: 00:52

We've trained people in over 137 countries and counting.

Intro: 00:56

So whether you're thinking about starting a career in data privacy or you are an experienced professional, this is the podcast for you.

Jamilla: 01:13

Hi everyone, and welcome to the Privacy Pros Academy podcast. My name is Jamilla, and I'm a data privacy analyst at Kazient Privacy Experts. With me today is my co-host Jamal Ahmed, Fellow of Information Privacy and CEO at Kazient Privacy Experts. Jamal is an astute and influential privacy consultant, strategist, board advisor and Fellow of Information Privacy. He's a charismatic leader, progressive thinker and innovator in the privacy sector who directs complex global privacy program. He's a sought-after commentator, contributing to the BBC, ITV News, Euro News, Talk Radio, The Independent, and The Guardian, amongst others. His Privacy Podcast reaches audiences in over 100 countries and is ranked the number one privacy podcast in the world and one of the top three GDPR podcasts. Hi, Jamal. How are you?

Jamal: 01:58

Fantastic, Jamilla. How's it going today?

Jamilla: 02:00

Yes, all right. Friday. Happy?

Jamal: 02:02

Well, I spy with my little eye a cross trainer in your background. How many times do you actually use it?

Jamilla: 02:07

It's a bike. It's a bike, actually quite regularly. But I think I shared in the group chat that a couple of weeks ago, I fell out of my bed in the middle of the night and hit it on the way down. So I'm going to move that at some point. But anyway, Jamal, you recently came back from Latvia. Tell us what you were doing there?

Jamal: 02:29

Yes, I was invited by the Latvian Supervisory Authority, the Data State Inspectorate, to be part of the international conference that they had. The conference was called Personal Data Future Perspectives, and they invited guests from all around the world, including our friend Max Schrems, and lots of other keynote speakers. And I had the pleasure of talking about emotional recognition and if that should always be classified as data processing. You know, it was a really great event. They had so many nice people there. And I got to meet a couple of members of the European Data Protection Board, I got to be on the panel with the Finnish data protection Ombudsman. And I also really got network with people from the European Data Protection Supervisory as well. But the thing that really stood out for me most was the actual Latvian people, how friendly and helpful they are. Like, everywhere I went, even though it's the first time I've been to this country and I knew no one and I knew nothing, everyone was always so happy to help. I kind of fell in love with the town I was in. I was in Riga, it's really nice. The best part of the trip was they had these cool electric scooters, right? You can just come out of the hotel and it will be just there on the pavement waiting for you, you scan it, and then you just jump on it and it takes you wherever you need to go. I don't know why we don't have things like that in London.

Jamilla: 03:43

We do have electric scooters in many cities, but there's no regulation of it. I'll be walking along in my headphones and then one will like, zoom past me.

Jamal: 03:55

But people actually own it. You know those Boris bikes we have, it’s like those Boris bikes, you just hire it as you pay, as you go, and then you stop, and that's it. The trip stops.

Jamilla: 04:04

Well, maybe that will come to the UK soon.

Jamal: 04:06

I think it'd be great for the environment too.

Jamilla: 04:08

among the top GDPR podcast in: 2020

Punit: 05:25

Thank you so much for having me. I'm looking forward to it. You guys are doing wonderful jobs. So continue to help the privacy community.

Jamal: 05:32

Punit, you are such a gentleman. Every time I've spoken to you, you've only been kind and complimentary and I just want to recognize some of these achievements. I know we just really quickly went through it, but not one, not two, not three, but four books and the podcast and all of these speaking gigs. Where do you find the time?

Punit: 05:51

That's a good question. I think when one has the right intention, you find the time. The same for you, I mean, I can say you are on BBC, you are here, you are there, you are everywhere. So how do you find the time? Because I think you would agree, when you want to do something, you will find the time. And when you don't want to do something, you will find an excuse.

Jamilla: 06:08

I thought you were both going to say caffeine is how you find time for everything.

Jamal: 06:13

I don't drink coffee, Jamilla.

Jamilla: 06:14

There are other forms of caffeine as I well know.

Jamal: 06:17

We're not going to get into your Red Bull challenges on this podcast. We will go to the GP for that. What's Punit’s ice breaker question?

Jamilla: 06:25

Yes, our ice breaker question. And I started using some of these icebreaker questions on my Instagram to see what kind of the general public feel. So Punit if you could go back and redo the last five years of your life, would you?

Punit: 06:39

I would redo perfectly fine. I would absolutely redo. Nothing to change.

Jamilla: 06:44

Okay. So you’d just do it and live it again as like an experience. You wouldn't change anything if you did go back.

Punit: 06:50

See, if I go back, I will be the same person. And if I'm the same person, I'll make the same decisions. And if I make the same decisions, it will be the same consequences. If I go back, it's going to repeat unless you say I go back with my current wisdom and everything.

Jamilla: 07:04

Your current wisdom, your current knowledge and your ability to change things. So I would go back, and invest in hand sanitizer and masks for the upcoming covid crisis.

Punit: 07:15

That's interesting. I think even if I go back with the same wisdom, I would still need to follow the same paths to where I am. For example, take a simple thing. To have a podcast with 75 episodes, I need to start with one. I can't start with 75.

Jamilla: 07:28

Very true.

Punit: 07:30

To Write four books, I need to start with the first one. So I'm not sure it can change a lot of things.

Jamilla: 07:35

That's very good idea. I think that's very helpful for people who may live in the past or look back and think, I should have done that. I should have done that. There's always a reason behind where you are now, I guess. Jamal, would you go back?

Jamal: 07:47

Oh, gosh, no. I don't have the energy to go back and redo the last five years, I'm perfectly happy where I am. I've made mistakes. I've learned along the way. I've grown, I want to look forward.

Punit: 07:58

Most people spend time in the past, but it's like a car. If you're driving a car, looking back, what happens an accident, and that's what happened. But you got to look forward and look at the past a little bit to learn to know what's happening and where you have to drive your car. So look forward. Look forward to the new thing and of course, everyone has challenges. I mean, I say I will repeat my five years. I've also had some of my most challenging years in last five years. I've also had some of my best years in the last five years. But the best and the worst go hand in hand. So that's why you need to be aware that there are challenges to make you grow. The challenges are there to create opportunities, but you’ve got to stay positive, stay energetic, and keep thinking and keep doing the right thing.

Jamilla: 08:39

Very good points. I think we can learn a lot from what you've both said. So getting into the privacy questions, why did you go into privacy in the first place?

Punit: 08:50

t with a plan. It was back in: 2015

Jamal: 10:25

That sounds like an amazing journey. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. And what really stood out for me there was you wasn't just waiting for somebody to give you an opportunity to do something. You actually actively went out and you created the opportunity for you by asking the question. And oftentimes what I hear and what really frustrates me is people, they sit there, they think, if I just do a good job and I sit here, and then somebody will recognize me and the right opportunity will fall on my lap. Well, in my experience, I can tell you that has never happened. Having said that, there are things you can do to increase how you magnetically attract those opportunities to you. And Punit will actually share more about how you can work on self-development, and I call it personal branding for that. But if you're just keeping your head there and doing a good job, even if you're doing the best job compared to everyone else in the same role, it's highly unlikely that an opportunity is going to knock on the door and land itself on your lap. Would you agree with that Punit?

Punit: 11:21

I would 100% agree and the reason I was looking for what I doing was exactly that. I was doing a very good job I thought. Of course, everyone thinks. I was focused head down and not focused on branding, not focused on anything, and thinking opportunity would fall in my lap, which it didn't. Then there was a manager who wanted to fire me, so there was fire underneath me to find something. So then in those moments of challenge, those moments of sometimes we call that in a negative sense, despair, frustration, all that, and you feel bad. You are being targeted and all that. I found that energy that I must do something because I had a desire, I don't want to be fired. So then I went to all the managers in the bank, 27 to 30 managers, and I said, do you have something for me? And before that or two years back, I was the best talent in the bank. And guess what? And then there was one gentleman who trusted me and the regulatory lady, they gave me the program. So I fully agree with you. You cannot sit and say things will come into my lap, because one thing you got to do is you said it very well, you need to ask. You need to I extend it a little bit more. You know, the son of Brian Tracy, my coach, says you need to ask shamelessly, I know it feels bad, especially coming from in the European culture, shamelessly and asking no, that's too bad. No, you have to persistently shamelessly keep on asking. Because there are two choices when you ask. The person says yes or the person says no. We usually think about no, but mathematically, the probability is 50% each. So why not take the 50%? Yes. And when you do it many, many, many times, as I was saying, 100 times, ten times, 20 times, the probability increases because you would do the first one, it's 50%. 2nd time also 50. And in this process, you never ever know which one is the time that they will say yes. Because if I knew it's the 100 chance, I will safely apply 99 times and 1ooth time I will go with all passion. No, you've got to go with all passion, all energy. Like in my case, 27 managers, I had to go 27 times. If I knew that's the 27th man or lady, I would have gone to them direct. Why would I do 26 unsuccessful attempts? You want to do that? So never ever sit back and say I'm relaxed, because then you are sitting duck. And if you are moving, then it's a bit more easier and you mention the branding, and I think that's another thing I learned. Because I was like, why did it happen to me? So not only I got the chance, I asked the question, why did it happen to me? I hired a coach. And then he said a few things and he said, you have to do branding. Of course, it was like, I'm not a branding guy, I can't market myself. Of course, all those hesitation and inhibitions. But then slowly and gradually I wrote my book. That was a step. Then I did my podcast and then things started to change.

Jamal: 14:16

Wow, awesome. But you had this pressure that you wanted to get away from the pain. And the pain was you've been there. You've previously been recognized as the best talent within the business. But even then a new manager came along and for whatever reason, they didn't get along with you. And they said, hey, Punit I don't think there's any more room for you to go further. And that really got you into, I would say, first gear. I was like, okay, I'm not going to take that. I need to find something. So you went, you went, spoke to the first person, the second person, the third person, 26 times you had to hear no and then the 27th time changed your fortune forever.

Punit: 14:50

Exactly. And I'm very glad that that manager wanted to fire me. That changed me otherwise as I said, heads down, working hard, no branding, nothing.

Jamilla: 14:59

I think we can often learn a lot and if we face an adversity, it can propel us forward, even if we don't think it will in that moment.

Jamal: 15:09

Punit the key thing I'm taking away from that is consistency and persistency. In fact, I'm going to brand it as shamelessconsistency and persistency.

Punit: 15:18

Shameless, consistency and persistency. That's interesting. Most people think privacy is a hard skill. So I got to do CIPPE, CIPM, CIPT, and I'm done. Well, no, you're not even started. That's the hard skill. You got to know the privacy part. But then it's about understanding business, understanding stakeholders, understanding people, and understanding yourself before that and then making the connections and then being able to position yourself and being a brand. I mean, anyone we are in the world of AI and computers. Put GDPR into an AI machine, it will learn and it can give you answers. So what should I do? How many days for a rights request and so on, that, a computer can do. But what a human can do is put the spin around it. Ask for contextual questions, put empathy, put the situation, put the context. Because when a rights request comes, it's a lot of contextual matter. When I work for a client, they say it's a privacy request. And then I ask what's the context? And say it's a commercial client, if it's a commercial client, you're not governed by the of course you're governed by GDPR, but then you also have the element of the commercial contract with the company before you throw in the individual. And when it's an individual, it's based on where you are. So again, I'm going into what I was saying, the material stuff or the hard skills. But the hard skills are important. But hard skills you can implement when you have the soft skills. And that's why it's also about personal development, making yourself applicable and relevant in that situation and most people think it's hard skills.

Jamilla: 16:51

That's very interesting. So if you had to kind of summarize your top three tips for privacy professionals in order for them to take their careers to the next level? Would one of them be soft skills? What would the other be?

Punit: 17:06

I would say three because everyone focuses on the hard skills. So I will not talk about that. That's a given. If you're a privacy professional, you know privacy. If you're a lawyer, you have done law. So that's something we are not going to talk. What differentiates you in the market is your ability to understand and connect with others, understand people and understand situations and then connect because you got to interpret it. Yeah, then your ability to provide relevant solutions. Because as a boring privacy professional, sometimes you cannot come in and say, hey, your website is out of sync, please stop the website, pull down the business because cookies are not in sync. That doesn't work. So you got to have that understanding of the business, understanding of the people, understanding of the situation, and then put a solution saying cookies are out of sync. Let's do this quickly and let's log it as a risk. And then so that's ability to provide solution. And the third thing is be able to be yourself. So don't get into the scare of, of course there are a lot of scaremongers. You will have this much of fine this and that and he's a CEO, how can I tell him? If I tell him this my job, I will lose my job. Well, be yourself. If you lose your job, you'll find another one. There's enough space in the universe, in the world for the right people and there are right places also. So those three things is what I would say.

Jamal: 18:27

Wow. This podcast is turning very philosophical, I love that. Punit I love how holistic you've made it. So police talking about being yourself, being authentic. But what I heard and read between the lines of what he's saying there is you need to change your mindset, or you need to adopt the abundance mindset. There is enough opportunities in this world for everyone to thrive. If we're always coming from a scarcity mindset, there's not enough opportunities and you just want to keep everything to yourself. It never gives you an opportunity to show yourself in your best life. It never gives you an opportunity to really put yourself out there because you're always worried about what people are going to take the moment you start doing that. The moment that you switch your mindset over to the abundance mindset, which leads Punit so eloquently put to us here, there is enough space in the universe for every single person to grow, develop and thrive.

Jamilla: 19:15

Prince you're passionate about self-development, and this is kind of coming off the back of the last question, the three top tips. As someone who's at the top of their career, how do you continue with your self development? And is it important once you reach the top, do you still keep developing yourself or do you think I can relax now?

Punit: 19:37

g earlier in the show, around: 2015

Jamal: 21:30

Yeah, I spent a whole weekend with Dr. John Demartini in West London. Wow, you're bringing back home from about ten years ago. But I found it fascinating. And actually, Dr. John Demartini was the one person who inspired me to become a speed reader. And that really helped me out at university a lot right. I can't read at the same speed I used to be able to read at before but one thing that did inspire me was just how we can increase our reading just by simply using something like a pen and using it as a visual aid. And then we can even increase it even further by making sure that the pen doesn't actually go all the way from one beginning of the line to the end. Because our peripheral vision sees those words and we can take into context. If you go into a speed reading course, it's absolutely amazing and it would fascinate you how quickly you can improve your reading speed. And John Demartini, after spending a weekend with him, was like, I need to read more books, but I need to read them faster. And this speed reading is definitely going to help me with that. But the time I spent with him was definitely life changing for me and it really got me to look into my values and understand what the values are. And one of the biggest stakeholders I took from that, he said, look, if you want to do something. If you want to achieve something then what you have to do he had this exercise where you have to look at this thing and you have to look at how it's going to benefit every single area of your life and then you're going to have to look at how that's going to benefit the people that you love and then you have to look at it to see the people in your environment, how that's going to benefit you. And then you're going to see what is the impact this is going to have on the actual world and have a global impact. And this one silly thing that you couldn't find yourself motivated to do or you're procrastinating on. Suddenly once you do this exercise, you feel bad not to do it because you've just seen how much benefit this can have for other people outside of you. And who am I to deny people of those benefits? And I can see Punit with that kind of mindset. And spending time with John Demartini, how you also have been able to channel that and why you're so passionate about serving people. And you're not just serving people, you are serving people and you're making global waves. I see a lot of commonalities between us and all of these similar coaches and mentors is making sense. And this is the reason why you probably resonate so well with each other. Thank you for sharing.

Jamilla: 23:41

information, I can kind of go: 5000

Punit: 24:05

a good book. And as you said,: 5000

Jamilla: 25:13

Yeah, no, I definitely agree with that. I think sometimes starting is the biggest barrier because it looks so overwhelming before you start, you think, well, how am I going to get to write a whole book when I can't even put a sentence together? But it's once you get over that first kind of hurdle, I think things, and I think that's true of a lot of things. What do you think, Jamal?

Jamal: 25:33

Yeah, pretty much Punit has just given me an Ah Ah moment. As you might know, Jamilla, I'm working on publishing my first book which is going to be the Easy Peasy Guide to the GDPR. And I've already put something out there and for free. It's available if you subscribe to the newsletter and that's the Pragmatic Guide to the GDPR. But I’ve had so much feedback and so many people request copies of it and they actually think it is actually a published book. It's not yet. So what I'm doing is I'm rewriting the Pragmatic guide and bringing in a more practical and an easier to read version of the GDPR. Now, the challenge I find is the GDPR is written in a way, it's probably written by a whole bunch of lawyers, it's very technically challenging. It's easy for me to translate that into another legally complex set of words and sentences. What's taking me the most time is to translate that in a way where it's so simple that anyone can understand it without losing the meaning and the nuances of the actual text. And that's what's been driving me crazy over the last couple of weeks. But what Punit said there was do half an hour a day and I think, look, if I just do half an hour a day then this will happen a lot quicker. And the challenge with writing simply is it actually takes longer to write something shorter and more concise than it does to write in great lengths. I can't remember who this philosopher was, Jamilla I'm sure you're far more knowledgeable than me and Punit you might even know, there was a guy who said forgive me, but I didn't have the time to write a shorter letter and he wrote a really long letter. So that just indicates that how much more effort you have to put in. But what inspires me is a quote from Albert Einstein and he says if you can't explain it simply enough, you haven't understood it well enough.

Jamilla: 27:17

Punit what has been your memorable, most memorable client story with people that you have worked with in privacy over the last few years? If you can share without breaching any confidentiality.

Punit: 27:33

I will share it in an anonymised way. So we were working on the privacy program at a certain point in time and one of the many, there was this marketing team who had created a privacy notice that was ranked as one of the best in their country and they got some awards and everything and then I come in saying because of the privacy laws, you have to change it. Then I had the head of legal, head of marketing together. The head of marketing of course was very proud of his awards and everything and he didn't want to change, he didn't want his privacy notice to be touched and of course the head of legal, you know how it is, it's GDPR, you have to change it. And then I was the program manager and I have to mediate so after a while when they spoke, I said, guys, you want to write the best privacy notice so that it gets an award again. You want to change it because it's GDPR, but I'm sure you don't want the company to be fined? Oh yes. You're not only after award? Oh, yes. Then I said to the legal guy, you want a privacy notice, it doesn't matter who writes it, he said yes. I said, the marketing guy, he will give you guidance. Would you take care of the guidance, Write it, he will review it, and if you're not satisfied, I will intervene. So that was one of the best moments because I didn't use privacy knowledge. It was all about soft skills, communication, mediation, and all those skills and everything coming together. The thing that happened was I was listening, I was synthesizing and all the skills I explained to you, ability to understand, ability to comprehend, ability to provide solutions and then also stay relevant. So I didn't try to say, I know, I didn't try to push GDPR. That 4 million and this and that and that. No simple, there's no 20 million, there's no 4%. Sorry I said 4 million, 4% or 20 million. And I was like, no, simple, you want this, you want that. The marketing guy wants the award. He doesn't care about the 4%. The legal guy cares for that. But both care for the reputation of the company. So that's what I synthesize, leverage. And it was a memorable moment because most people think privacy is about all these other aspects.

Jamal: 29:41

Thank you so much for sharing that story Punit, because it really exemplifies what you were talking about earlier when you gave the three top tips. It's not the hard skills, it's the soft skills that makes the difference between a mediocre professional, a mediocre privacy professional, and those really sought after privacy professionals such as yourself. And it's the ability to listen, to understand. What is the thing this person is interested in? What is the thing that's driving this person? How do I come in and give them some common ground so we can achieve a win win situation? So the program won, you got your objectives met, the legal lawyer won, he was comfortable that he met the regulations and also the marketing won, because he was happy that he could put something together and compete for another award. And it's that kind of thinking and the ability to take a step back when everyone around them are losing their heads by arguing with each other and bring that coolness that I think has probably been one of the central drivers for a lot of the success that you've achieved. And forgive me if I'm wrong, but I'm just seeing that coolness and calmness that you're bringing to this podcast that you bring to everything I see, and I've heard all the great things about you. Where does that come from?

Punit: 30:56

honest. If you compare me in: 2012

Jamal: 31:48

Thank you. What a lovely tone to end this episode on. And what I'm taking away from this episode of this fabulous talk that we've had with Punit Bhatia is number one is shamelessly be persistent and consistent to meet your objectives. Number two is you need to be applicable and relevant, right? You need to be applicable and relevant. And I think those two things, if all I did was go away and try and find out how I can be more applicable and more relevant, it would definitely help serve my clients a lot better. It would help me serve everyone a lot better, actually. And then Punit gave his three top tips. Number one, he said understand and connect. Understand people, understand situations, understand the business. Because when you understand those things, you can come up with better solutions. And it's very similar. The reason it resonates with me so well is one of the things we teach on the accelerator program when we do the leadership mindset is the assumption that in order to be understood, first you must seek to understand. And the moment you understand, then people are more open to open up to whatever suggestions you have. So Punit explained there when he gave us his most memorable client story, he understood what the legal guy wanted, he understood what the marketer wanted, and he understood what the business objective or the program objective was. And by first seeking to understand what everybody wants, he was then able to come up with a solution and be understood and that was accepted by everyone. So understand and connect that has been so powerful. And then his second takeaway or the second top tip, was the ability to provide pragmatic solutions that we can't just come up with, solutions that are what we call or what some people are looking at, calling about privacy absolutism and say, hey, the cookies not compliant, take the website offline and make sure this business can't do any business for the next 30 days and everyone can go home and maybe don't know, let's find pragmatic ways to solve these, where we get a win win win outcome and finally the thing he said is, be yourself, be authentic and be true to yourself. And when you are free to be yourself, you'll actually find there is room to grow and there is enough room in this universe for everyone to go and everyone to succeed. And we should really take on the abundance mindset. So those are my top takeaways. I think it's been such a valuable episode. We should actually charge for this. And that's the other thing. I just want to take a moment to thank you for everything that you do on behalf of all of my mentees, on behalf of all the privacy professionals. People that have read your books, listen to your podcast. Thank you so much for being of service to the privacy community. The stuff that you're putting out there is really engaging. It's so beneficial, and we look forward to more of it to come. And we wish more people would put themselves in positions like you, where they actually say, look, I've collected so much wisdom and now I want to give back and help other people develop. And you're someone actually, who was one of the first individuals I came across when I first transitioned into privacy and I was looking to make an impact. I saw all of the great things he was doing on YouTube, on the podcast, and putting yourself out there with the branding. And when you look at some of the earlier stuff you're putting out there, even though you wasn't getting the kind of traction at that time, you kept consistent, you kept persistent. In fact, I would say you were shamelessly consistent and persistent. And that’s helped you to see where you are today with all of those achievements, with all of that recognition, and with all of that authority you bring to the table. And I had to do exactly the same thing. I had to be persistent, I had to be consistent. You got to try something. My mentor says to me, try something ten times and then change it. Get the feedback, change it. Don't give up if you haven't tried it at least ten times. Once you've done it ten times, you'll get some lessons. Change it and tweak it. It says, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different outcome as well. So I'm not going to do the same thing 100 times and expect a different outcome. That's just like sitting there waiting for something to fall in your lap, do it ten times, take the feedback and then move on, right? There is no failure, only feedback. And like Punit said earlier on, the worst thing that can happen is you're going to get one of two outcomes. It doesn't go your way, or it actually does go your way. If it goes your way, brilliant. If it doesn't go your way, then you haven't actually lost anything. You're still in the same situation. So nothing is going to become so disastrous for you that your life is going to change. But actually something could happen. And one of the things I teach my team is instead of saying, what if this happens and that happens, and getting anxious and trying to avoid doing it, we always start off with, wouldn't it be great if and then we fill in the blank. Wouldn't it be great if and then fill in the blank. And that has really helped us to feel inspired, to feel motivated, and to go and tackle some of those things that we might have some kind of fear or anxiety or something that we've been unsure about.

Punit: 36:41

Thank you so much for the words of wisdom and the kind words about me. I think I can exactly say the same things about you, but then I'll be repeating your words. But you've been pf great service to people, and I've seen your journey. I think we were some of the people who were a little bit more upfront, more in the face, more putting things into LinkedIn. And sometimes I was also asked, but I also saw you initially there's a limited response, sometimes people challenging, but you kept on and hanged on, carrying on, and that's the way to do it. So thanks for the service you're doing and thanks for having me here. It's a wonderful chance, wonderful opportunity, and I look forward to having you sometime in the Fit For Privacy podcast as well.

Jamal: 37:26

I'm definitely looking forward to it. Just one final question before we let you go. If people want to connect with you and buy your books or look at things that you've been working on, what is the best way for them to connect with you?

Punit: 37:37

Two sources, my website Fitforprivacy.com or the LinkedIn search my name and you'll find me.

Jamal: 37:44

We're going to link Punit Bhatia on LinkedIn below this podcast. We're also going to link in his website Fitforprivacy.com and Punit Bhatia on Facebook. Make sure you guys look him up, make sure you connect, and make sure you also find inspiration to take your careers and your professional development to the next level with Punit.

Jamilla: 38:05

Thank you so much for joining us. I hope you enjoyed yourself on our podcast and I look forward to hearing Jamal on yours.

Punit: 38:12

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. It was a privilege and a pleasure and a very wonderful experience.

Outro: 38:20

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Outro: 38:28

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Outro: 38:33

Thank you so much for listening. I hope you're leaving with some great things that will add value on your journey as a World Class privacy pro.

Outro: 38:40

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Outro: 38:43

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Outro: 38:47

Or have a suggestion for a topic you'd like to hear more about, please.

Outro: 38:50

Send an email to team@kazient.co.uk

Outro: 38:55

Until next time, peace be with you.