Intro: 00:01

Are you ready to know what you don't know about Privacy Pros, then you're in the right place.

Intro: 00:06

Welcome to the Privacy Pros Academy podcast by Kazient Privacy Experts. The podcast to launch progress and excel your career as a privacy pro.

Intro: 00:17

Hear about the latest news and developments in the world of principles.

Intro: 00:22

Discover fascinating insights from leading global privacy

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Professionals and hear real stories and top tips from the people who've been where you want to get to.

Intro: 00:32

We're an official IAPP training partner.

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We've trained people in over 137 countries and counting.

Intro: 00:40

So whether you're thinking about starting a career in data privacy or you are an experienced professional, this is the podcast for you.

Jamilla: 00:58

Hi everyone and welcome to the Privacy Pros Academy podcast.

Jamilla: 01:03

My name is Jamilla and I’m a Data Privacy analyst at Kazient Privacy Experts. With me today is my co-host is Jamal Ahmed, Fellow of Information Privacy and CEO Kazient Privacy Experts. Jamal is an astute and influential privacy consultant, strategist, Board Advisor and Fellow of Information Privacy. He is a charismatic leader, progressive thinker and innovator in the privacy sector who directs complex global privacy programs. He's a sought-after commentator, contributing to the BBC, ITV News, Euro News Talk Radio, the Independent and The Guardian, amongst others. His Privacy Pros podcast reaches audiences in over 100 countries and is ranked the number one privacy podcast in the world and one of the top three GDPR podcasts. And Jamal, you've recently been shortlisted for two Piccaso Awards best Educator and Best Privacy Leader of the Year in the consulting career degree. So congratulations.

Jamal: 01:54

Thank you Jamilla, and thank you for such a lovely introduction as always. So yeah, the Piccaso Awards, I mean it's something that I'm really excited but nervous about at the same time. And obviously they don't tell us anything so I'm not sure why I was chosen as a finalist for both the Best Educator and I think it's Privacy Leader of the Year for the consultant category. The Piccasso Awards they're designed to reward the people who have made an outstanding contribution in the dynamic and fast growing sector of privacy. And this includes professionals and companies who are using their resources and their innovation to increasingly meet those complex legal demands, pushing through privacy thought leadership and innovative protections to protect people's personal information. There's actually 15 award categories in total which honour both organizations or individuals that are shaping our present day landscape of privacy concerns with new ideas about how we should go forth from here onward into the future. And the thing with these awards is every time you get an award or you’re a finalist for an award, it's great, but then it brings out this part of me which I don't like. And the thing is, you go about, you do what you do, you serve people, you're happy and then you get nominated for this award and you think, okay, if it happens and then you get shortlisted as a finalist and that's when things go wrong. It's because, the moment you get shortlisted as a finalist suddenly it becomes something that you think about and something that you get nervous about and apprehensive about and you start thinking about, whereas if you was never shortlisted, you'd never think about it, and then you start looking at, okay, who else is shortlisted? And then you start getting your hopes up, oh, yeah, I want to win this. And then you go to the actual awards and you know, you've got one in six, one in five, one in eight, however many finalists there are, the chance of winning it, but you sit there in anticipation that you might get it. You never write a speech because you don't want to imagine you've got it, because you see everyone else and you're always up against amazing people. And these Best Educator Awards, if you have a look at it, I think I'm up against three academics, somebody from BT, and everyone else is from really large multinational companies, and then you've got me, someone who's not even trained as a lawyer, competing with all of these guys. And I just think, why do you do that to people? So I'm excited, I'm grateful that they recognize some of the fantastic work we're doing at the Privacy Pros academy, but at the same time, there's pros and cons from a personal point of view on that. So, yeah, that's all I have to say.

Jamilla: 04:26

Well, congratulations anyway.

Jamal: 04:27

Welcome to CIPPE versus CIPM the ultimate guide to the right privacy certification to accelerate your career. We're going to hear from Matthias Bohler, who's responsible for international talent development at the IAPP, myself, Jamal Ahmed. I'm a global privacy consultant at Kazient Privacy Experts. We're also going to be fortunate enough to hear from Lisa Spink, our specialist data privacy recruiter. And we also have a special guest today, Douglas Foreman, who is the Director of Certifications at the IAPP. So we're all in for a treat. So the whole reason we're all here is because we wanted to share with you how to accelerate your privacy career without feeling like an imposter, wasting time and money. Now, some people get a bit worried and say, look, what about if I've got tons of experience in another domain? I don't want to take a salary cut, I don't actually want to hit and start again at the beginning. And what I say to that is, if you already have tons of experience, that's fantastic, because you're already bringing so much value to the table. When you add the CIPPE certification, when you know how to make all of those things simple, when you know how to bring that passion into the role, you bring so much more value. And we've had people like Moji, who actually went from being a business analyst to becoming a director of a multinational privacy consultancy and earning six figures. How is having tons of experience in another domain actually helpful for people who are looking to pivot the career into data privacy Lisa without having to take a pay cut.

Lisa: 05:58

If you’re looking for a different domain, as in, like, you don't work in data protection. I think those skills that are transferable are the senior stakeholder piece and the training piece. One thing I've learned from many, many DPOs is that you'll have a DPO in a business and they might have loads of different areas that are spread off this company and loads of different divisions. And I think the main challenge that people come up against is the fact that it's getting data protection embedded into the core of the business, because it doesn't work unless embedded. So they have to get finance on board, marketing on board, legal on board, all the other teams and departments on board and that is a skill in itself. So if someone has that particular skill, where they train, they develop, they work with senior stakeholders then absolutely. That is so important for data protection. It's definitely a transferable skill also.

Jamal: 06:47

Thank you for sharing. And the other thing I hear a lot from lawyers who are trying to say, hey, how can we break into this? Is they already have a legal qualification, they don't see why they should go and get another certification if they already have the legal qualifications. And you said you actually recruit a lot of lawyers as well. Can you explain why, even if you have legal qualifications already, the CIPPE actually helps you stand out?

Lisa: 07:10

took much detail to the DPA,: 2000

Jamal: 08:10

Now we're going to share some top secrets, how to really make sure they stand out ethically against competition. And when we were speaking, you were actually explaining some of those things. Could you share three secret tips for our audience today please?

Lisa: 08:27

Detail. Please put lots and lots and lots of detail on there. Go in. People don't put detail on the CV and then they go on interview and they interview with a DPO and they think, I don't need to go into detail about what a DPIA is because this is a DPO, they know what a DPIA is, but in hindsight, that DPO wants to know how you do a DPIA. Don't be afraid to give detail. I'd like definitely 100% look at the CIPPE, look at the OneTrust as well that seems to come up an awful lot, it’s a transferable system and passion. Passion is your big key. People want people who are passionate in that area, senior stakeholder experience as well, and training throughout the business. Shorten the first part, the older part of your CV, and bulk up your recent part of your CV and make it relevant to where you want to be. So if you haven't got any experience in this area but you have done a CIPPE course, I would put that experience in your kind of profile to show people where you want to be and what you want to do.

Jamal: 09:33

That’s it. There's some amazing secret tips there, Lisa. We should actually put a PayPal link and get people to buy your coffee because that's been super valuable. Thank you so much for your time, and I look forward to catching up with you.

Lisa: 09:45

You're very welcome.

Jamal: 09:46

You've heard from the recruiters that every single job she’s come across has asked for the CIPPE. But the CIPPE is a certification that is awarded by the International Association of Privacy Professionals. So if we're going to pursue a certification, it's important to understand the organization who is actually going out issuing this and why employers all over the world are fascinated and will not hire somebody unless they have this certification for the most part. The other thing, sometimes privacy pros say to me is, you know what, Jamal? I can do the certification. It's a big investment or actually I can go and do a free certification, or I can go and do a training with someone like the BCS or the PECB. Why should I go with IAPP? And Lisa has without any doubt showed you that every single job, privacy related job you’re going to see, when you go and have a look if you’re applying for your next role, requires an IAPP certification. If you have one IAPP certification, great. I always recommend you start off with the CIPPE, and we look at the differences between CIPPE and CIPM later with Doug. But as long as you have one IAPP certification, you've got a chance of getting your foot in the door. You have two, then you know what? You already speeds ahead. But before we understand why these certifications are so crucial, we want to understand why businesses all over the world are so fascinated with International Association of Privacy Professionals. Matthias will share some industry roles and more information about the actual International Association of Privacy Professionals. Matthias, over to you.

Matthias: 11:24

Thank you, Jamal. Good to be here. A little bit about the IAPP. We are a non for-profit organisation, Privacy Pros is one of our official training partners. We're delighted to have Jamal on the roster here providing the IAPP training across the UK and other markets as well. The IAPP supports the profession, so it is not just the training that we're talking about, but it's also we provide a host of resources and support connections. So the IAPP is the largest private community in the world. We are mentoring new professionals coming into the space. We are supporting those high power data protection officers that are looking to keep pace with industry and protection laws. Everything is happening everywhere. So as a professional association, we help professionals keep pace with data protection and privacy around the world. Certifications illuminate the pathway towards opportunities without question. As Lisa attested, IAPP certifications open doors. IAPP certifications are not easy. These are rigorous examinations, and they are a ANSI accredited to the ISO standards that provide a lot of credibility for employers to hire people that have these certifications. I would like to bring in Doug just to talk a little bit about the three core certifications that we have in the roster.

Douglas: 12:59

mments is absolutely true. In: 2016

Jamal: 16:24

Is doing the CIPM or CIPPE alone or through a provider the best option?

Douglas: 16:30

I truly believe working at the IAPP with Marla Berry, who is our training director and has a team that develops our world class textbooks and our trainings, and also our channel team that is working with partners like you across the globe, that success is really predicated on training, especially with our partners across the globe. You guys do such a good job. You work so closely with our IAPP team, and that's why you're official trainers and why we trust and have tremendous trust in you guys to deliver that. So I would tell anybody that the best way to go about getting certified is to avail yourself of IAPP training through partners.

Douglas: 17:24

Lisa mentioned this before, but these are really tough exams, and they're really rigorous. And that's another reason why these credentials mean so much to employers. All you have to do is go on to LinkedIn and see the badges that show up from people posting about their certification and talking about what the journey was like, and that often they say, this was harder than passing up my bar exam. Our exams are challenging and preparation is essential.

Jamal: 17:50

And I guess Doug that's exactly why it makes you so attractive to businesses around the world. Thank you for taking those questions. People are asking to say, if you were to recommend the CIPPE or the CIPM to take first or next, which of those would you recommend?

Douglas: 18:08

That's a tough one. One size doesn't fit all. I will say that when I meet with my certification advisory board and many of the other boards, they are practicing professionals, and they always recommend to their colleagues and to newer people to take a CIPPE first. Like I said, I think if there's a country or region like Europe, like the US, like Canada, that has a pre-existing CIPP, I think it's probably a good idea to do that first. The CIPPE has a higher pass rate I can say that right now than the CIPM. And maybe that's because it is more focused on the what and why of privacy. It's like, what are these basic rules and requirements that the European Union has decided is important to do to protect people's data? I think it's accessible that way because you're talking about fundamentals when you move to CIPM, and CIPT, it's about the how of implementing and people with some experience in doing that are more successful on the exam, because the exam features scenarios that ask, so you're a privacy manager at this business. In what case would you complete an audit on this? There's definitely more the how aspects of CIPM that would make it a little more challenging for somebody who doesn't have maybe some experience in privacy. And again with the qualifier that plenty of people take CIPM first and are successful but that's my general recommendation.

Jamal: 19:57

Thank you so much for your time, and thank you for sharing those key nuggets and gems. I think we've got so much more clarity, and it's reassuring, actually, as an official trainig partner, when somebody actually comes and explains, because people ask me questions all the time, especially about should we do this like this, or should we do this or should we do a certification? And obviously I have a very biased answer, and they’re like, oh, but obviously you're an official IAPP training partner. You're going to push it. But, you know, the truth is, we've had PECB, we've had BCS companies say we'd love to have you on board to sell this for us. And I've quite openly had this conversation with Matthias, and I said, no, because I believe in the IAPP. I see where you guys are going, and wherever you go, it's the IAPP certification that people want. Now, for me to put people through trainings for those other ones, it's fine but I'm not here to just sell training program for the sake of them. We're not a training company. In fact, we didn't even do this until we realized that we can't fulfil our mission. So at Kazient Privacy Experts, we had one aim, and our mission there was to help every single organization on Earth to empower them with honest privacy practices so that they can help us to achieve my dream, which is to make sure that every single person, man, woman, and child on this planet has the freedom over their personal information. And so I thought, you know what? The best way to do is to go and work with really large companies, because if I work with enough of them, then we're going to make a dent. So we went and worked with some of the large companies, and, you know, I realized it's just a drop in the ocean. And that's when we realized we had to create a community of world class privacy professionals who come together, and together we would go and empower those businesses to adopt those privacy practices. And together we will be able to achieve and fulfil that mission of making sure every woman, every man, every child on this planet can actually enjoy the rights over their personal information. And that's why we created the Privacy Pros Academy. That's why we have that community, and that's why all of those amazing people that are already part of the community and the people are looking to become part of it really come together to support each other. Because it's not just about passing an exam. Anyone can go and pass an exam and the truth is, if you want to get certified because you want to get an interview, you can read the book for yourself. You can buy some of those unofficial questions that we know you shouldn't look at, and people do, and they don't pass. But you know what happens is you go to the interview, the recruiters don't call you back, and you're thinking, what's going on? And you might even be lucky enough to get in front of a hiring manager, but you don't get the job offers. The reason is because you can't demonstrate you have the clarity, the confidence, and the competence in a way where the stakeholders understand, you know, what you're talking about. Nobody wants to hear you recite Article 13 and Article 14 and Article 30. The people on the ground, the managers, the CXOs in the board, they want to know, what does that mean for us? How do we apply this stuff? And unless you go and train with a mentor who shows you how to apply all of these things pragmatically, there is no way you can read a book and teach yourself how to apply this stuff because you don't even know what it is that you don't even know. So here's the thing. The first thing you get when you come and you train with us is you get the official textbook. So this was edited by Eduardo, who is the data privacy program for Hogan and Lovells you might have seen him speak and each chapter has actually been written by a privacy expert, and you get lifetime access to this. The next thing you get is you know they said, these are some of the toughest exams and questions that some people come across. So we're going to give you some sample exam questions so you get used to what the questions look like and how to actually go about answering them. And this saves you time and money by not having to run unofficial sources with the wrong answers, which cause a lot of people to fail. It's going to help you to check your knowledge so you can see actually, am I actually following this is it making sense to me. And it helps you to understand what the format is going to look like in the exam. So when you're under pressure, at least you know something that is a little bit familiar with you and then we're going to give you the answers so that you can actually see what the right answer is and then explanation of why it's the right answer in case you are swayed towards answering something different. The next thing we're going to give you is the exam voucher. We're going to give you an exam voucher and this is the exam voucher that you need is $550 and it's valid for twelve whole months from when you join the academy, which means that you can take the exam at your convenience. Now, I know some people want to take it straight away, so we've had Craig Proudfoot, who actually came to a weekend training with me, and on the Tuesday he went and aced his exam. So you can take the exam straight away. Some people have stuff comes up, they want to plan the exam, something comes up, life comes up, right? So you can cancel and reschedule it as many times as you like. And you have the option to take the exam both online, which means from the comfort of your own home, or you can take it offline by going to a centre. Now, here is my top tip for anyone who's thinking of booking the exam and doing it online, please, please go and do it in the centre. Because when you do this online at home, it's very difficult to focus on an exam when you've got a weird guy staring at you the whole time and asking you to do things. He's interrupting your thought process and the results and the statistics show that people who do a proctored exam are more likely to fail than the people who go to a centre and do it there, right? Plus, you might have internet outages and there's all sorts of challenges. I've heard people have talk about nightmare stories. I think even one of our own said she spent three and a half hours just trying to get through this exam because of all the technical difficulties. Now imagine you're already anxious about the exam. That's further anxiety that you don't want to add and it's going to put you in the wrong frame of mind, which is not what you want. You want to go there, you want to make sure that you're ready to ace the exam, which you will be by the time you finish going through our five steps. So the next thing we're going to give you is one whole years of membership to the International Association of Privacy Professionals. And you heard Matthias and Doug talk about the values and the benefits of being a member and part of the world's largest privacy association. You're going to get to network with the biggest community of privacy professionals out of the game. You will also be able to join your local chapter, attend the meetings, and gain the CIPPE credits to maintain your certification so you don't ever have to sit this exam again, because the exam expire after two years. But as long as you keep up your CIPPEs, then you should be able to continue to maintain that certification. So the knowledge net chapters and the meetings will help you to gain those CIPPE credits which are so important. But more importantly, it helps you to meet the local privacy pros who are in your local vicinity that you can actually network with. You can find yourself another mentor there and you can really get ahead of the game because they know about the opportunities as part of this knowledge net. Now, the next thing you get access to all of the resources in the IAPP’s extensive library. Now, I'm not sure how often you see people sharing these IAPP resources on LinkedIn, but all of the things that you see being shared around plus more exclusively available to members, is all there for you. And you get twelve full months, a whole year's access to that. And then you get all of the member only webinar replays as well, and the member only webinars for you to enjoy. So that's everything. And then you also get a copy of the training slides. And one of the things I found is when people come to the training, they actually start trying to copy down every single slide. And I was like, you know what, when you're training with me, you're not here to copy down the slides. We're here to engage. We’re here have a lot of fun. We're here to make sure that you get these learnings on a very deep level. So you can go and have a conversation with a world class privacy professional and feel like you're having a conversation peer to peer. And that's exactly what helps people get recruited when they go and stand in front of a hiring manager who knows about privacy. The fact that they're able to hold a conversation and show that competence, even though they've never done a day's worth of privacy in their life, right? That's the difference that makes a difference. So you're not going to come to the training and try and copy down every single slide. We're going to give you the slides. You're going to make sure that you actually enjoy the time there, that you're going to interact, and you're going to use this as an aid to refresh your memory on what was discussed during the training, which you're going to find is actually going to make your revision quicker and a lot more efficient. Now the truth is, all of these resources that I've shared with you, the official text or the sample exam question, the exam voucher, the IAPP membership, the training slides, you can actually get that with any official training partner. And there's 120 official training partners anywhere in the world. And I encourage every single one of you to go and do your research before you come and speak to us about training with us. Because our training is by application only, which means we only work with people who have done their research. They are a good fit for us because you're going to become part of our community and we only want people who actually uphold the same values as us as part of our community. The next set of lists is the difference that makes a difference, and that's only exclusively available from us. The Easy Peasy Pragmatic Guide to the GDPR. We've taken 97 articles, and we've actually broken them down to the point where it makes it so easy peasy to really get your head around this and also have a conversation with anyone about what certain GDPR articles are saying. So when a stakeholder asks you, hey, what is Article 30? Instead of regurgitating the article and showing them that you actually have no idea, they could have read it out for themselves. You can explain, well, Article 30 actually says this, but what you have is the actual GDPR text so you don't lose anything. The original text is there and when you've gone through the original text, you have a few lines where we've actually summarized it for you in a way that makes it easy peasy, that gives you the clarity and the confidence that you need to confidently go ahead and do your work competently and look good in front of those meetings. And the next thing you're going to get is the case summaries. And these are the case summaries that really help you to get clarity on what the law means, because these are case summaries from the Court of Justice of the European Union, right? I don't know if you try to read these, but most of these case memories is when you try to read them, are about 30 pages, and they're full of legalese. And even the lawyers, they feel like they're getting bored and they don't have the time to read through them. What they would really love is a case summary. So we went ahead and summarized all of these really important case summaries so that you can get total clarity on the application of some of these points of law. So Wheltimore that talks about establishment and then you watch Schrems I, everyone knows Schrems I brought down safe harbour. You’ve got Schrems II. You're all bored of hearing about Schrems I and Schrems II. But how many of you actually read through the Court of Justice of the European Union full summaries and understood exactly what those things are about and the nuances? And I'm guessing not many of you, right? Not many of you. But the good news is you don't have to read through those summaries because we've summarized everything that you need to know in a way that's easy to understand. The next thing we give you is the enforcement actions. So the case summaries help us to understand the interpretation, but it's actually the enforcement action that helps us to understand what actually went wrong. Which articles have they violated or which principles have they violated and what were the specific circumstances around that? The next thing you look at is, okay, they got fined this amount. So for example, here we can see Bix Node got fined €220,000. But why is that much? Why not more and why not less? Right now that's what we call aggravating factors. So if there's an aggravating factor, they would have got fined more. So have there been any aggravating factors that meant Biz node actually got fined more than they could have got away with? And other times we want to know what are the mitigating factors, which means that in this case, this should have been fined more, but because they've done something right, they've actually had a mitigating factor. And these things are super important in your practice because when you know what those aggravating factors are, you can go and apply, make sure that you're not doing them. And when you see what those mitigating factors are, you can actually make sure that you actually go and apply them in your organization or for your employer to speak about those, which makes you super valuable to any organization. Okay, so you've got easy peasy enforcement actions and then you get to do the live training with myself. So I'm the only IAPP instructor that you see or you would've seen on television, on radio, and published in print. And companies actually pay me a daily rate of $6,000 a day to train their staff. And when you go into my LinkedIn, you can see I've got people from UBS, Facebook, Heathrow Airport, Vodafone, STC and Radisson Blue, some of the biggest companies in the world, they're sending their lawyers, sending their staff to come and train with me. So you get the value of the training with me without having to pay those corporate day rate prices. And if all of that is not enough, then I give you a pass guarantee. Now, up until two months ago, we actually had a 100% success rate. Two months ago we had two people fail in the same week, right? For whatever reason, they couldn't pass one of them. He explained to me that the reason he failed was because he didn't actually get enough sleep the night before and then he just got really stressed out and it was just really bad, right? But it's okay, it doesn't matter. At some point we knew our 100% success run was going to come to an end. But the good news is, after those two it’s picked back up again, everyone else is passing again. But even if you don't pass, it doesn't matter. We guarantee that I will work with you and you can come to train with me as many times as you want. The committee will support you and my whole team will support you, and we will do exactly what you need until we get you to a stage where you've been successful and you've got to where you want to get to. And even then, the community is there to support you the whole time. So you've got nothing to worry about. All the risk is taken out. And then if that's not enough for you, what we've also done, just like those summaries, we've actually created the easy peasy revision guide for you and we break down every topic, we identify all of the key points you need to know, and you're going to be guided through your revision in an easy, manageable way. And this is going to really help you to get that clarity so you can build on your confidence. And that's going to help you to get the credibility and the authority not only to ace the exam, but also to speak to your stakeholders, your future employers, the people that you work with in a language that makes sense for everyone. After the training we also have community led training. And one of the reasons I started the academy was because I figured out what my mentor told me is the best way to learn is to go and teach other people. And I encourage all of my mentees on the accelerator program who come and train with us for 12 weeks to go and share their takeaways and to teach somebody else. And here is exactly what we do. So we've created a platform every Tuesday where we have community led revision sessions where one of you or someone in the community will actually come and go over a topic to make sure that you get your doubts cleared. My team is always there to make sure that the right information is being passed and you have the ongoing support and you have those refreshers and those boosts all the time to make sure that there's always something for you to get stuck in and involved in and really make sure that you're taking yourself to the next level by sharing that knowledge. And this is the thing that most of the people that everyone loves most, it's that community of world class privacy pros where you get support from each other. And the thing that people love about this is watching answers to other people's questions by different members of the community. You come here, you share your wins, you get invited in. And as soon as you're invited in, that welcome is the warmest welcome you'll ever receive anywhere. And the thing that makes this stand out and you see these people when we released a video on LinkedIn on why they really love training with us. They say that when they've gone to other training providers, what happens is they pay a fee, they're given a day, a contracted trainer will come in, read some slides to them, bore them to death for two days, and then that's it. This is the end of the relationship. We don't have that here right? At the Privacy Pros Academy what makes us different from everyone else is the fact that I'm invested. The reason it matters to me that everybody does well is when you come and join our community, you're actually helping me to fulfil that mission, that vision, that purpose we have of making sure we're upholding the privacy right of every single woman, every single man, every single child on this planet. And if you want to be part of that community, then I'd love to have you there with us. And if you do join that community, I'm going to do everything we can to make sure that each one of us becomes world class, so we can empower those businesses and inspire other people to come and join us as well. And the last thing I want to share with you is this certificate of attendance. So once you come and go through the actual training, regardless of whether you're going to take your exam at any time or not, what we are going to give you is a certificate of attendance, which gives you the credibility that you've been trained. You've had the European Data Protection Training and that’s signed by both myself and Trevor Hughes, who is the President of the IAPP. So that should let every single person know you had the world class training. It's endorsed by the IAPP, also endorsed by the Privacy Pros, and you are really good person for them to take a safe bet on. So if you want to apply to come work with us and all you have to do is book a call and speak to our success consultant. You’ll most likely speak to Ananya. She will take you through your options, she will explain this to you. And if the program is a good fit for you and you are a good fit for the community. She will invite you by making you an offer to join the community at a value which you won't get anywhere else which is why we encourage you to do the research before you come and speak to us, so you can make an informed decision, so that you know for yourself this is the best offer you're going to see anywhere on the planet.

Outro: 37:39

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Outro: 37:47

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Outro: 37:52

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Until next time, peace be with you.