Intro: 00:01

Are you ready to know what you don't know about Privacy Pros, then you're in the right place.

Intro: 00:06

Welcome to the Privacy Pros Academy podcast by Kazient privacy experts. The podcast to launch progress and explore sell your career as a privacy pro.

Intro: 00:17

Hear about the latest news and developments.

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In the world of privacy, discover fascinating insights from leading global privacy professionals, and.

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Hear real stories and top tips from the people who have been where you want to get to.

Intro: 00:32

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We've trained people in over 137 countries and counting.

Intro: 00:41

So whether you're thinking about starting a career in data privacy or you are an experienced professional, this is the podcast for you.

Jamilla: 00:57

Hi everyone, and welcome to the Privacy Pros Academy podcast. My name is Jamilla, and I'm a data privacy analyst at Kazient Privacy Experts. I'm primarily responsible for conducting research on current and upcoming legislation, as well as key developments and decisions by supervisory authorities. With me today as my co-host is Jamal Ahmed, Fellow of Information Privacy and CEO, Kazient Privacy Experts. Jamal is an established and comprehensively qualified privacy professional with the demonstrable track record solving enterprise-wide data privacy and data security challenges for SMEs through complex global organizations. To date, he has provided privacy and GDPR compliance solutions to organizations across six continents and in over 30 jurisdictions, helping to safeguard the personal data of over a billion data subjects worldwide. Welcome, Jamal.

Jamal: 01:46

Hi, Jamilla. How's it going?

Jamilla: 01:48

I'm good, how are you?

Jamal: 01:50

I'm really happy today. I just got a notification that we won another award. Yeah, this time we've won the award for the Global Choice for Data Protection Training. So that's amazing. I'm really excited about that.

Jamilla: 02:06

Congratulations.

Jamal: 02:08

Thank you.

Jamilla: 02:09

And I am excited today for our guest.

Jamal: 02:15

We've got a special guest today from the first unicorn in our space, data privacy. And I don't know if the guest is aware, but I actually came to some of the events where she's spoken at, and we used to be neighbours when they were back in Cannon Street and when they moved down the road from our offices in Fenchurch street, I actually popped in a few times as well. So maybe Linda seemed to be in the office here and there when I come to see some of our colleagues on the data guidance side and some of the guys on the implementation site. But why don't you go ahead and introduce who that guest is?

Jamilla: 02:47

So our guest today is Linda Thielová, and she serves as Head of Privacy CoE, DPO at OneTrust – the #1 most widely used privacy, security, and trust technology platform. Linda provides guidance on GDPR, ePrivacy, and global privacy-related obligations to support customers and product innovation and is responsible for overseeing OneTrust's data protection strategy and implementation to ensure compliance with GDPR requirements. She also conducts training and workshops on the global privacy landscape and regularly contributes to various publications and conferences. Linda is a Certified Information Privacy Professional (CIPP/E, CIPM, CIPP/US) and earned a Master’s in Law and Legal Science from Masaryk University Brno. Welcome, Linda. Thank you for joining us today.

Linda: 03:38

Thank you so much for having me, Jamilla. And I'm so, I guess, ashamed, Jamal, that I didn't get to catch you at the office. I suspect that you were just hanging out with the fun guys, and you never know.

Jamal: 03:52

That's the problem. If I was hanging out with the fun guys, I'm sure I would have found you. I was hanging out with doing all the implementation stuff for some of my clients. But, Linda, we're so honoured to have you on the podcast. And one of the things that I'm really happy about is you actually run the Center of Excellence at OneTrust. And from the friends and colleagues and family that I have working at One Trust, I know how much of an emphasis Kabir places on making sure that everyone is really doing their best. And one of the values, in fact, the key value that we have at the Privacy Pros Academy occasion is our number one value is excellence. And so it's super important to us to make sure that we do everything with excellence. And you coming from the Center of Excellence. I'd like you to share more about what excellence means to you.

Linda: 04:42

Thank you so much for that. That's a really good question, and I'm glad that we get a chance to talk about the Centers of Excellence, because that's something that we have established at OneTrust. And the structure of the Centers of Excellence will tie into the answer around what I see as excellence. So the Centers of Excellence, the way we have them set up, they are side by side for privacy, security, ethics, and ESG, and they are overseen by our Chief Trust Officer, Andrew Claywater, who reports directly into Kabir. And the idea why we set this up for these specific areas is that we were thinking about what is the mission for OneTrust? And the mission for us is really to help our companies, who are our customers, who are our business partners, and ourselves. We want to make sure that we foster trust in the industry, that we foster trust from the individuals towards the businesses that use OneTrust, and they are building their own programs. And as I'm sure you've seen, privacy is one of the building blocks of trust, but it's not the full story. So that's why we are also relying on security, ESG, and ethics to help build that whole holistic picture of if businesses are really focusing on all of these areas and they're delivering excellence across all of these platforms, that's where we see the trust being laid down. And if I were to look at privacy, specifically, what I see is excellence there. I think we need to think about it from the perspective of bringing it back to basics, like, what are the basics that we would expect? The basic principles that we would expect as individuals from the businesses, and I think a lot of them boil down to some of the principles we know from the GDPR and other basic rules on privacy. Things like transparency, things like being very clear and intentional about what you're doing, the personal data and not going beyond that. Things like having a very clear information about what is your vendor chain doing, and being able to communicate that. And I think from our unique perspective at OneTrust, it's also about not just building the best privacy program internally, which like, no pressure, but that's computer school for me, it's also about making sure that we have the framework and the blueprint for enabling our customers to do the same. So we want to make sure that we're also supporting and fostering that growth of privacy and the trust within the industry generally. So, yeah, lofty goals, no pressure at all.

Jamal: 07:30

That's amazing. And I can see the synergy between the way we kind of approach things with our mindset and what you guys are achieving. So I guess we're on the right track. And I think it's that focus on excellence and that focus on what can we do to really serve our customers that's really helped OneTrust to become the market leader and hold that position and really grow and expand. And I think every week I wait for an announcement from Kabir to see what he's going to bring up this week.

Linda: 07:57

Yeah, it's the same internally, but I would totally agree with you that I think we're all following the same mission and the mission is really to make sure that we're striving towards excellence, but we're not leaving anybody behind it as well that we're building this community of privacy professionals. So that's why I love what you're doing with the privacy pros, because I think that fits into that mission just perfectly.

Jamilla: 08:20

Jamal was so excited to talk to you, he forgot the icebreaker question.

Jamal: 08:37

What’s your ice breaker for today?

Jamilla: 08:38

Well, this was inspired because a couple of weeks ago, my mum and stepdad got a new puppy. So my question is cats or dogs and why?

Linda: 08:47

Oh, my gosh. So definitely dogs right now. I used to be a cat person throughout my life, but then as a cliche during the pandemic, me and my boyfriend got a puppy. So now we have one year old well sheepdog cross with border collie and it just totally changed my life. It also demolished a lot of our furniture.

Jamilla: 09:10

I was going to say dogs are very excitable.

Linda: 09:13

Yes. And she's like full of energy, she's super sweet. And honestly, she's been such a support for her, this whole pandemic, because if you're just focusing on her and her needs, it just takes your mind of things and it pushes me to go outside much more, which totally helps my mental health as well. So dog person now.

Jamilla: 09:36

Jamal I know the answer to this question for you. Probably neither.

Jamal: 09:41

No, actually I would prefer not to take responsibility for animals right. Because I feel like I have so many responsibilities and I can't give them all the time and attention that they deserve. However, I do prefer dogs because I think dogs are a lot more loyal. I think dogs are a lot more interested in you. The challenge is though, we have two cats in our household. My wife has two cats. We have Hamza and his mom, who is Hiba and they just scream at me whenever they want food or whenever they want their meal. And they spend all their time with my wife and they go and be nice to her, they pursue her, they make sure they're around her. And as soon as they see me, it's like, hey, you're disturbing me, get out my way.

Jamilla: 10:32

Maybe a dog for you in: 2023

Jamal: 10:36

Yeah, I think so. You can send me one in the posture Jamilla.

Jamilla: 10:42

Anyway, back to the privacy. So we usually start off with this question Linda, how did you get into the privacy sector?

Linda: 10:50

So I think for me, I was always really obsessed with a lot of topics which are very hard to get you employed. So I was really into human rights, constitutional rights, like a proper privacy nerd in that area. And I was always a little bit of a bureaucrat. Is that even a thing? Like as a child, I really enjoyed sorting through my toys and building lists by size and stuff like that. So I feel like I was sort of involuntarily edging towards compliance work and while always maintaining the idea we want to make sure that we help people, we want to make sure that we maintain their basic human rights. And this is a really hard angle to go into the private sphere with. So I was finding my way for a little bit of time. I was assistant to judge at Supreme Administrative Court, I was working in house and before that I was also at a law firm. And I feel like all of that gives you something. But at the end of the day. I think at the in house position that's where I started really immersing myself much more in privacy because I saw that there was this I wouldn't say gap but there's definitely that opportunity for us to do better and to build out a proper privacy program at a business that was very heavily regulated and I was relying on a lot of data processing and it felt like appalling to me and it just sort of managed to finally align all of these things that I was really interested in and just put it into that one perspective. So I think it's really interesting because right now, in hindsight, it makes it very clear to me how I got from point A to point b, but if you were in the middle of that journey, it's not clear at all. I don't know if it has been like that for you, but it's literally like you're trying to follow your talents and your interests, and then eventually you end up in a place where you look back and you're like, yeah, that clicked and that makes sense. But sometimes it's really hard to charter that path continuously. I'm not sure if that's been an experience for you. If you have been doing that, then kudos to you, but I haven't been that way.

Jamal: 13:15

ke, it's coming into force in: 2018

Jamilla: 14:49

So what's it like for you, Linda, being a woman in the privacy sector?

Linda: 14:53

Thanks so much for that question, Jamilla. And I wanted to say that this is a topic that I've been thinking about a lot, and as I'm growing older, I have also kind of changed my views on my role as a female industry in the industry in general. So I think I started off in a situation where I was working for organizations where feminism was not really recognized. I wouldn't say that there were any necessarily issues, but it was never like a big topic that the organization would be discussing, and I didn't feel like it needed to be. And then I moved into OneTrust and I started, I guess, reading up a little bit more on feminism. And I was also seeing the amazing work that our team at women at OneTrust was putting together, and it just made me realize how important it is for women to actually be part of that discussion. So for me, as a woman in tech, I feel like feminism is a lot about inclusivity and diversity. So I'm one of those people who really are big believers in using it as a platform to challenge ourselves, to make sure that we're including other people who maybe don't have a voice yet, who are just not finding themselves in the right rooms. And that could be men, that could be people from different nationalities, different backgrounds, different social statuses. I feel like we are right now starting to get more traction as women, and we're starting to populate more of these exec positions. And I know that we still have a lot to achieve as women, but I feel like this is really one of the biggest goals for me, and I think, namely in tech, we are still seeing the need for more diversity. So I feel this is really like my brand of feminism is about inclusivity and using our power, our voices, to advocate for people who are not yet in the room and to get them in the room.

Jamilla: 17:09

Yeah, I really like that. Would you say that privacy so far has been quite male dominated?

Linda: 17:16

I would say that privacy has been much better in terms of the gender balance than some of the other industries. So if you look at tech industry in general, you would see that stark contrast between men and women and females at start-ups and all of that. They just don't have that kind of representation. Then if you contrast it with privacy, you typically see a rough 50 50 split. Obviously, it's going to be different for each jurisdiction, but globally, I feel like we're doing better on that platform, but that doesn't really take away from all the concerns about diversity and general inclusion, which I think should be part of that debate. So I feel like we're doing relatively good as privacy professionals on that gender balancing, but we shouldn't fall asleep on all the other inclusion issues. Yeah.

Jamilla: 18:08

Jamal, I know it's something that you've talked about before as being someone of Bangladeshi origin coming into the privacy sector. How have you found that with diversity?

Jamal: 18:18

Yeah, so one of the reasons we set up the Privacy Pros Academy was really to promote and forge a path for people who otherwise might be excluded and otherwise might have felt that they actually don't have a seat or they can't get their foot in the door. And the Privacy Pros Academy was really based on our passion to build a global community of ambitious professionals who will come together and empower businesses to adopt honest privacy practices. So together we can really safeguard the personal information of every single woman, man and child on this planet. And the key thing when it comes to equity, diversity, inclusivity, is a lot of people, they will come to events, they will try and reach it for stuff, and they look around the room and often what they see, and this is my own experience actually, is you'll see that the room is usually dominated by lawyers who are middle class and middle aged. And I've shared this story on one of my podcasts, Linda, this is going to be super interesting. So early on in my career, when you guys used to do those privacy connect sessions in person, there was one that you had above, next to Monument station on the first floor. When we come to, you have caterers doing the catering and I think it was a breakfast on that day. And you have the section where people eat and then you have where I believe you were one of the speakers at the time, and people speak and you have to go through the doors. And as I was going through the doors, there was a gentleman in front of me, and let's just say he was a Caucasian, middle class, middle aged lawyer. He took off his coat and he handed it over to me. He thought I was one of the caterers, he thought I was part of the catering team. That was the thing that really drove me. And this is what inspired the Privacy Pros podcast. This is inspired us to be at the top. And that was the motivation I needed to make sure that wherever this guy goes in privacy, he knows about us. And he knows that just because somebody might look a different colour, just because somebody might have a different background, just because somebody might not speak in the Queen's English, it doesn't actually mean that they don't have a seat at the table when it comes to privacy. And in fact, the Privacy Pros Academy is all about knocking down those barriers and showing that when we actually bring in people from all different backgrounds, when we celebrate that diversity, we actually increase the value people bring to the table. And the Privacy Pros Academy, we have an Accelerator program that's designed for twelve weeks long, and that's taking people who have very either know the previous experience of privacy, regardless of their background, and transforming them to become world class privacy professionals. And we've been doing that for a long time now. And if you see the people that are coming through the program, you can see 100% of people are from a background which is increasing diversity and inclusive and equity into the privacy sector. And we've taken people who were previously driving Ubers with no previous professional experience, and they're now performing really well for blue chip companies in the privacy sector. We've taken people who were previously stuck behind the supermarket counter and really frustrated with life, and we've turned them into world class privacy professionals, and they're really excelling. And when you look at some of the other podcasts and you look at some of the recommendations and some of the stories of how we're transforming people's lives, and when you join the academy, you actually become part of the global community. You can see how many people we have from so many different backgrounds that you would never, ever think that there can be such diversity and such inclusion and such passion. And the thing I love most about what we do and about our community is everybody brings so much value from their cultural background, from how they've grown up, from how they've seen things done, and everyone adds and contributes to that. And when everyone adds and contributes that, and we have this collective as a community, we can actually consider things from so many different angles. And personally, I find that so much valuable, and I find that it really helps me to take my practice to a completely new level.

Linda: 22:24

I love that. I love that origin story. I wish we had contributed to it from a better angle, but I love that, and I love the mission. And I can only agree. I feel like we're never going to be able to build sufficient privacy solutions for this world if we don't have everybody with all the different backgrounds contributing. And I love that you're doing such amazing work building that diversity. And I think that's also one of the role for all of the organizations in this industry to help foster this idea of diversity. So we don't want to be gatekeeping. We don't want to make this exclusive legal club. And I might be shooting myself in the foot, but I would be the first person to recognize that as a lawyer, I don't nearly have enough visibility into the whole world of privacy that we need. And it's these days, what I'm seeing in the market professionally, when people are recruiting, they are looking for people who have that diverse background, who have experience from completely different sectors. It could be security, it could be completely different. But you just need to have that tap into the real life that's outside the books, outside just the theory. And I feel like the more people with the more diverse backgrounds we have, the more efficient we are at solving the problems of today.

Jamal: 23:46

Yeah, absolutely.

Jamilla: 23:48

Definitely agree. With your role at OneTrust, you are head of the Privacy Center of Excellence and a DPO. What does your role entail? Can you tell us a bit more about that?

Linda: 24:01

Sure. So the DPO role itself is focused on overseeing our internal privacy compliance program so that's where Kabir with his mission statement of building the best privacy program in the world steps in. And the way we do it is to empower our Privacy Team to take on hybrid roles. So, as you may know, the Privacy Platform at OneTrust is about helping businesses and basically operationalizing the privacy compliance tasks. And the Privacy Team is structured in a way where every individual in the Privacy Team is a DRIs. We call it directly responsible individual supporting specific modules. So we would have people owning data mapping modules for your records of processing, or we would have people owning subject rights module to help facilitate access rights and so on and so forth. And those people on the Privacy Team who own these modules, they're helping to build content for these modules like templates for web forms or for example, templates for records of processing. And they're advising our product team how to develop the platform. But the hybrid role is in a way where they're doing all of this product work, but they're also responsible for making sure that we have the best records of processing or that we are actually answering properly our right requests. So that's where I rely a lot on the Privacy Team, the amazing privacy professionals we have on the team to help me make sure that we are doing great job also internally, and that we're kind of owning up to the idea of building trust with our own data subjects and our own customers. So that would be, I think, the role for the DPO and the Center of Excellence as such, overseeing that one ties very closely into it. So part of it is definitely being able to advise to our products team on what is the next big thing that's coming. What would be the next big thing like the GDPR. What's happening in the US with the federal laws. What's happening right now with the EU data strategy that they're building out. What's happening with the data transfers in case anybody knows. And just trying to merge that legal development into a product language that the product team can understand and to help them prepare for what's next coming and to also coordinate with the data guidance team that I know you mentioned Jamal, you've been in touch with them. So the guys who are really the research brains behind we're doing it OneTrust, who are following all the latest developments and to make sure that we're working efficiently and we're projecting that guidance internally within the company, but also externally, towards our customers who need to know what's happening and we need to be prepared as well.

Jamilla: 26:55

Yeah, that's really interesting. Thank you. And when you're hiring for members of your team, what is it that you're looking for? What kind of qualities?

Linda: 27:05

That's a great question. So it would depend on whether we are looking for the data guidance team members, like analysts who have been doing research or for people who are on the privacy team, who are more hands on with the platform. But I think the underlying key thing is we're trying to look for people who are aligning with what is our mission statement. So we're looking for people who are very passionate about privacy and it really just shines through. Sometimes you might have people who don't have quite as much experience in privacy, but you can tell that they're really into it. You can tell that they're reading up on all the latest articles and that they have tried our solution, even like in a demo version, and that they have ideas around how to make it better for people and how to apply it in practice. And I think we're looking for that sparkle, for that passion to really, I guess, deliver on the best people that we can recruit. So I think that passion is the biggest item for us. And we have a couple of catchphrases like hungry and humble that are supposed to be like the elements of what the candidate is all about and that's kind of the key messaging there. So we're looking for people with passion and privacy to really showcase that passion and just shines through. And for people who are hungry and humble, which means they are not necessarily out there boasting about how amazing they're doing, but you can tell that they are really insightful and you can tell that they really know their stuff and they're keen to take on more. So those are kind of the mission statements for us when we're recruiting.

Jamal: 28:45

I can see why Alex Fetani is really thriving at OneTrust. All of those things you've described, he embodies all of those, as I'm sure all of your colleagues do. And it's really interesting to see what you're looking for when you're building people into your amazing OneTrust team. Thank you for sharing that with us, Linda. One of the things that I share with my mentees on any of our programs is when people are looking to recruit, they're not just going to look at your CV, they're going to look beyond your CV. And one of the things they're going to look for is how motivated you are to work for that company, but not just that company in that specific role. And some of those things you've described there is what is helping you to see that someone is actually motivated to work for OneTrust and in that specific role. And, you know, they've gone above and beyond. Why do you want to work for this company? Well, I think it's going to be a great opportunity and I'm really passionate about privacy. Okay, everyone's going to come and say that in the interview. What makes you different? And what I find one of the things that recruiting managers and hiring managers actually do is they go and look at their LinkedIn activity and to see and when you go on LinkedIn and you. See this person talking about privacy. They're in all the right circles, they're contributing. You can tell this person has a passion for this and that's the kind of person that you want on their team. And when you can demonstrate that passion, and when you can really show you have the motivation and you have the drive to be hungry, that's what you're talking about, the drive to be hungry. But also do it in a humble way. I think that's a really winning recipe for success. Thank you for sharing that with all of our listeners.

Linda: 30:19

Of course, and I couldn't agree more. I wanted to also mention that most of our recruits were actually a product of referrals from someone else from within the company. And I feel like that actually works really well. Because to your point, if people are connecting together, they're talking about privacy, they're passionate about the topics, you end up connecting with like minded people. And it's always the best thing if these people just are not shy about speaking up and maybe recommending someone. So I think this would be also my call out to anyone in the privacy industry. If you are looking for someone, don't be shy to ask for referrals. And if you are looking for a position, again, don't be shy to reach out to your network and ask them to recommend you. I think that's absolutely fine in this professional world to do, and I think it just reaps amazing benefits for everyone involved.

Jamal: 31:16

Think that's a great tip. One of the questions I was going to ask you actually is what are your top three tips for previously professionals to really enhance and take their career to another level?

Linda: 31:26

So I think the first one is the one you just discussed with me, the idea to really immerse yourself in networking and really be part of that passionate drive for new developments and privacy. The second one would be don't box yourself up. So I think with our backgrounds, and I think us lawyers are particularly prone to that, we really focus on the legal side of privacy, but we tend to forget about all the other areas that are so pivotal for understanding and being a good privacy professional. So try to read up on things which you are not quite as proficient as. For me, for example, I'm trying to branch out and learn more about AI and maybe all of these new areas of machine learning that are just developing or security and encryption. So make sure that you're branching out into areas that you're not quite as familiar with would be my second tip and you can do it by reading or you can just do it via some key amazing podcasts just like yours. So definitely that would be the second tip. And I think the third tip would be to be yourself and to make sure that you're staying true to your identity. So we spoke about earlier the idea of Diversity, Inclusivity and I think sometimes it's very easy for us, in order to get into the industry and get into the company, to try to suppress ourselves, just to kind of align with the idea of what the most mainstream person would be like. And I feel like we're often losing a lot of something that's really truly us in the process that could actually be very enriching for the business. So I just figured that if you have the ability and the confidence to actually show up and be truly yourself, it empowers you to do more. And it also is that representation element that can help bring in more people who might just feel more represented through you. So just don't be shy to be slightly different than the mainstream and to be the coming through the way you are. I feel like we really need that in the privacy industry.

Jamal: 33:46

I love those three top tips and we resonate and I think we align so much on so many levels. So the first tip here was really show your passion and show your passion to your networks by networking. Because when you're networking and you show that passion, opportunities are going to come your way. The second key tip you had was go and really discover more. Don't just do your day job and go home, make sure you're always learning. And there are so many ways you can learn. You can read books, you can go to articles, you can attend webinars, and you can even listen to podcasts. So don't be shy and make use of all of the amazing resources that are available to you. And one of the things I love actually about the privacy industry is people are so giving, just like us there are so many other people out there that are creating lots of webinars free events, podcasts, so there's really no excuse not to go out and seek that knowledge. And the third thing you really said was have integrity and be authentic, right? Be true to who you are and let that show up. And the reason I really resonate with that is one of the things I look for when I'm hiring for our small team here is people who are not looking to fit in. So I say, look, I tried to fit in, I tried for many years to fit in and then I got fed up of that and I decided to be outstanding instead. And now I'm looking for people who are not looking to come and fit in, but actually looking to join the team to be outstanding. So together we can really go out there, inspire all of these privacy pros to come into the sector, to hold the door open and take everyone's game to another level. Linda, there's one other thing I wanted to actually ask you. I know Kabir is very keen on all of the actually, I think it's one of the requirements if you want to be at OneTrust is everybody has to be certified with the CIPPE and the CIPM as a minimum to be in the organization. Why is that such an important thing? And why does OneTrust pay so much importance on that?

Linda: 35:42

That's exactly right. So everybody within the industry of OneTrust needs to be at least CIPPE and CIPM certified. And it's not just to clarify. It's not just that we require it, but we're also facilitating it on our side. So we are actually covering the costs of exams and preparation materials, and we are also allocating bonuses to people who are successfully certifying with IAPP, with any of these certifications, or the further ones like the US one or the Asia one or the T one. And I think the reason behind it is very clear we want to make sure that both internally and towards our customers, we represent that expertise. And as you said, Jamal, the excellence, I think this is us striving towards the privacy excellence. And it's very hard for us to do it across the board if we are not all speaking the same language, if we're not all understanding the key challenges behind what we're doing and what the customers are trying to do. So we see the certifications as a way for all of us to achieve that common ground of understanding and to be able to benefit our customers who are for example privacy professionals and to save them, cut them the time that they would have to spend explaining, oh but I have sensitive data here. So I need to be dealing with it slightly differently than with regular personal data. Or there's this thing with Schrems II and data transfers. Suddenly everyone's on the same page and they can just focus on solving the issues. So I think that's the idea behind it. And obviously the nice side benefit to it is that we are enhancing our employees professional expertise and we're making sure that people have a way to pursue their professional growth within OneTrust and supporting them while they're doing it.

Jamal: 37:40

Thank you for sharing. And the reason I asked that is because at the Privacy Pros Academt, one of the things that we're really focusing on is helping people to really add to their professional credibility, add to the subject matter expertise, so they can really add more value to their employers, to their organizations, to their clients. And we really have been doing an amazing job on mentoring programs with the CIPPE and the CIPM and the CIPT. And I don't want you to just take my word for that, but for anyone that's actually listening, go and have a read of the recommendations on our LinkedIn profile and really see how we can actually help you to also enhance that your credibility, get more understanding, and learn how to do things properly. Because like you said, Linda, it's about making sure that everybody has that baseline of understanding and the IAPP certifications are seen as the gold standard. And if it wasn't so important, a company like OneTrust would not invest so heavily making sure that every single person that you attract to be part of your company actually has the support, actually has the resources, and then they're rewarded for actually attaining what's only going to help them do their job better, serve the clients better, and ultimately me have a more thriving career.

Linda: 38:50

Agree 100%.

Jamilla: 38:52

And your dog agrees, by the sound of she does. She definitely agrees. There you go. Linda, it's been great chatting with you today. Thank you so much for participating in our podcast. The last question that we normally have at the end of the podcast is gives you an opportunity to ask Jamal a question. So it can be anything, it can be to do with his career, could be something you've always wanted to know. And one of these days, I'm going to ask Jamal a question instead, in.

Jamal: 39:30

In addition to 101 questions already, Jamilla.

Jamilla: 39:33

Yes.

Linda: 39:33

Okay.

Jamal: 39:35

Awesome.

Linda: 39:36

Thank you so much. And by the way, thank you so much for having me, Jamilla and Jamal. I have to say, I really enjoy your podcast, and it's such a pleasure for me to be part of it. So thank you again for having me. But over to the question, I think one that I'm always kind of striving for and that's tying into those three takeaways is branching out, learning a little bit more. So I was wondering if you had something to share, Jamal, in terms of some interesting resources for me, maybe like a good book that you've recently read or maybe a cool podcast other than yours to maybe share, or a good webinar, something interesting for me to read up on or listening on free time.

Jamal: 40:25

Absolutely. So, look, later on today, I'm actually delivering two webinars. I'm delivering a webinar for the IAPP, one of the US chapters and the ADCG right now, they have a three-day conference, and I'm actually speaking at that later today on cookies as well. So what I'll do is I'll share the links with you after this session, but we'll also make those links available for anyone who can go and catch any of those replays. And we have so many webinars that we put on, so many webinars that I have been a guest on, and I'm more than happy to share those with you. But you know what, Linda? I've got an even more valuable resource for you. Normally, I save this till after we finish the recording, but one of the things I've created over the last couple of years is my inner circle of privacy professionals. And the inner circle of privacy professionals is me seeking out to find the people who inspire me in data privacy. And usually what I do is invite them onto my podcast. So I've got a community of every single person you've seen appear on the podcast, plus so many other people in the industry who I have met through networking events or at a lunch or a speaking event. And I brought them all together onto this platform and signal and the students that actually the mentees that join my accelerator program, I actually invite them to come and network with what I call the global leaders of data privacy. And I'd love to invite you to be part of that community. It's actually something that we ask all our guests to do as a way of saying thank you for being amazing. So that resource there is going to be so amazing because just by watching some of the conversations, you learn so much more, right? You could spend hours and hours. You can actually go and spend thousands of thousands of stuff on legal counsel. But when you've got people like Odia Kagan there, when you've got people like Emerald de Leeuw, when you’ve got people like Robert Bauer, Avishai, Jules Polonetsky, everyone you've seen in the past. And there's like, I think there's about 100 people in the community now. And there's always a fascinating conversation to be had every day. And personally, I just learned so much just by looking at some of the questions and answers. And we've got people from all around the world in keeping up with our inclusivity and our diversity. And we have people from all the different sectors. Because sometimes one of the problems that I found with privacy professionals is we get so caught up in people that's in our niche, in our sector, that we forget that that's just a small part of it. And we forget to look at the bigger picture. So when you've got people from looking after children's information, and you've got people looking after medical information, and you've got people from SAS a little bit like yourself, then you've got people from other areas, events, catering, hospitality, all the different issues put together, it really creates such a powerful environment. And for anyone that joins onto any of our mentoring programs, we actually invite them to be part of my inner circle. We also have a community on Facebook which is actually open for everyone. And in keeping up with our inspiring everybody, that platform on Facebook is actually open to anybody in the world who has a Facebook account and wants to join. And one of the things that we do is we really go out and do live sessions. So sometimes it'll be me, sometimes a member of my team, and we speak about a topic on privacy, or we answer the questions that people who have come to train with us have. One of the challenges I found when I was actually doing these certifications and training courses is I learned by asking questions and getting the answers. And at the time, I might go on a two-day training, I might even go on a five day training. I think of a few questions at that time, but then when my mind has actually processed the information and I'm actually thinking about it or revising, and a scenario comes up, I have nowhere to ask the question. The trainers, they weren’t interested. They were like, hey, we've got our fees, we can't help you. Sometimes they wouldn't even respond to you. And I was like, you know what? I have to change it, and I want to make sure that we do better. So now anyone that comes and trains us, not only are they part of the community, but any time they can ask those questions and when we come and do the lives, we answer those questions. And that gives anyone in the world an opportunity, regardless of any kind of financial resources that they may or may not have, to be able to come and join the Academy to be able to get an insight into what is Data privacy all about, what are these key questions and how can that really help me to understand a little bit more? So in that group, we have amazing resources. I've summarized a lot of the key cases from the Court of justice of the European Union, and we've made those things available there. I've also summarized the GDPR in a language that anyone can understand, so that resource is available there as well. And we've got so many other amazing resources available in the Facebook group for anyone listening. And the link is always below in the podcast, so scroll to the bottom of the page and you can actually link into it. But Linda, for you, I'd love to invite you to the Privacy Pros community on Signal, and I'd love for you to be a part of that community. I think that is going to be the most valuable resource you can have. I'll share all the other resources, and the other great thing is, whenever someone is speaking on a platform or a panel or they come across something great, everyone shares it. So you're never going to miss out and you'll always be in the now.

Linda: 45:23

That's awesome. Thank you so much, Jamal. I really appreciate it. And I feel so lucky now. I feel like I'm part of the All Stars team, fellowship of the Ring kind of group. That's awesome. As you said, it's amazing to have that kind of community to troubleshoot together, to brainstorm together, and those brilliant minds that you described already being there. I feel like it's going to be such a treat. Thank you so much.

Jamal: 45:48

It's a community of people who are hungry and humble. Linda, it's been an absolute honour and a privilege to have you on the podcast. Thank you so much for giving up your time and sharing all of your nuggets of wisdom with all of our listeners.

Outro: 46:05

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