Jamal: 00:03

Are you ready to know what you don't know about PrivacyPros, then you're in the right place.

Rahena: 00:08

Welcome to the PrivacyPros Academy podcast by Kazient Privacy Experts, the podcast to launch, progress and accelerate your career as a PrivacyPro.

Jamal: 00:19

Hear about the latest news and developments in the world of Privacy.

Rahena: 00:24

Discover fascinating insights from Leading Global Privacy Professionals

Jamal: 00:28

and hear real stories and top tips from the people who've been where you want to get to

Rahena: 00:34

We are an official IAPP training partner.

Jamal: 00:38

We've trained people in over 137 countries and counting.

Rahena: 00:42

So whether you're thinking about starting a career in Data Privacy, or you're an experienced Professional, this is the podcast for you.

Jamal: 03:20

If you have to create a slogan for your life,

Gbenga: 03:22

what would it be. That's actually a good question. I thought about that, I would say diversity at its best. In Africa, we've been in the US, almost two different cultures in a different kind of environment, and work environment as well. I've seen diversity has its best,

Jamal: 03:46

or your slogan for life is diversity at its best. Banga, can you tell us what you love about the privacy industry. Most important thing

Gbenga: 03:57

to me personally, as a professional, more you see privacy, it's, it's different, it's a moving subject, and because it changes, and, you know, rules and regulations and laws come up that shakes up the industry that just fits in my personality as, as a privacy professional, that's what I'd love to be. The thing that I like most about it, the fact that it's a living profession, its not static, it's not doormat, it changes. Privacy changes like it's something new, like almost every three, four months, either in laws or regulations or new decisions.I like the fact that it changes, that's one

Jamal: 04:36

of the things I love about it as well is that it's constantly evolving, you're always having to you know make sure you're on top of everything that's happening, and it keeps us motivated and challenged so I completely relate to what you're saying. Right. Talk to me about the moment you decided, being a data privacy professional was the career for you,

Gbenga: 04:51

so initially in the lawyer workforce for my work, we, we do more cases that are to do with the intersection of law or technology, not just

Gbenga: 05:01

your usual intellectual property and stuff but also data privacy as well but then, in Nigeria, the privacy space, it's not really, really good at that point, because we don't have regulation. We don't have a law, the few international organisations were working for that time in the UK to be specific, locally, we don't really have anything that is, you know, working and functioning, then lead to interest in privacy, I moved to the UK for a Master's, the master's programme 2014 - 2015. The GDPR was just like coming out during the programme, the school was a kind of like an impasse because you don't even know which laws should be focused on, you know, directive is about to go extinct, GDPR is going to come out, you know that also supported my interest a little bit, the final break came, when I got to the US finally working at MasterCard. My very first job at MasterCard before I got promoted as Associate Specialist was a contract administrator that role requires me to draft, review contracts, structure contracts and negotiate contracts with third parties, mostly the contract I was working on, I started talking about data privacy and data privacy as a privacy addendum with a privacy persistent I'm like, Okay, this is something that you know I've had experience on before, but we missed seeing it constantly. I said, maybe it's time for me to expand my knowledge, my understanding of the subject, or the time that I decided that I want to focus on privacy was when I got to the US and worked at MasterCard.

Jamal: 06:37

when you got to the US and you were working at MasterCard, you were reviewing contracts and you kept seeing data privacy popping up so many times, and you've learned during your masters while you were in the United Kingdom, this new piece of legislation that's going to be a game changer for the world. All right, it was like, Ah, this is something I need to start looking into, because it seems to be everywhere now. Right, right. Okay, you obviously have a great position at Ernst and Young and prior to that you was at PWC.

Jamal: 07:06

What helped you to succeed?

Gbenga: 07:08

Going to study, to know more about privacy. Most people reach out to me about getting into privacy. They think that they just need to have a certification in privacy, read a book or the IAPP book and get into privacy. And I will tell them like, you'll never understand privacy if you read the IAPP book, you want to launch yourself into the career. The book is designed for you to pass an exam. So if you're looking to pass a test. Yeah, you read a book you pass a test, maybe you're going to understand some part of privacy but you will understand enough privacy, you can't start from reading an IAPP book to launch your career into privacy, so you have to really start from reading several articles in the works that are being done even before the IAPP became an organisation. So yes, like go understand do stuff, the rudiments, the background information, then you can progress into IAPP books.

Gbenga: 08:02

I think, one of the factors that really helped me is getting to know about privacy, read news, read text cases and the next part, that helped me be successful is the fact that the IAPP has done a very good work. I like the fact that they've been able to separate the relevant regulations for different jurisdictions like the US, we have our own stuff in Europe, you guys have your own stuffy, the fact that I've been able to not just understand the US law alone, but also extend my knowledge to Europe. Learning the overall management of privacy that's really helped me a lot because firms, organisations, clients sees that and they realise that okay, it's not just the best in local area of laws, so it's the second factor is just not reading about privacy but also trying to learn about what happens in other jurisdiction. Most likely you work for an international company, and these companies have branches all over the world. So, they will most likely prefer someone who has knowledge, not just locally, but internationally and knows what's going on in other parts of the world as well. And I would say, the third factor that really helped me be successful. I try to understand my client, so you can't release, provide privacy guidance or controls or support to our organisation or business, so I think if you're working for one organisation its going to be very easy for you to just learn the business but if you're working with a Big Four the client changes, organisations changes, so that means you have to constantly learn and know about the routes that you follow, to, to understand the company, and you know, there's several routes, you can go on in the internet, read news, check their website, talk to them, talk to someone now so I would say that's another factor that will help to be successful, you know, when you talk to clients about privacy, and you're kind of interpolating their business, features, and objectives into what you're saying you respect that really shows that you've learned about a few factors that that comes to mind, thinking with this stuff.

Jamal: 10:20

All right, now that's that's been super helpful, what I understand from what's helped you to really succeed is number one, you actually took the time to invest in yourself you took the time to invest in your own education, learning about privacy, you didn't just have this losers mindset where you're gonna read a book, learn how to pass an exam, and think you're gonna be successful as a privacy professional. I need to attend training, I need to widen my horizons, learn about privacy from other sources and see what's happening not just where I am, but what's happening on a global scale, right, and then for you to succeed in your role as a consultant for one of the big four is really understand that that different clients will have different needs. And for you, the more you took the time to understand your clients, the more successful you found you were in your work. Right, Right. Alright, excellent. What's one thing you wish you had known when you began your career as a privacy professional?

Gbenga: 11:13

They are very very good questions. The Privacy industry doesn't teach doesn't have rooms for new comers, for beginners, for people who are just like fresh out, you see most organisations, right now, they are willing to teach you in practising, you don't see that you really see an organisation saying, you can come in, new without you having a experience, that we're willing to teach you expect you to learn, people ask me is your firm hiring, can you help us but you won't get the job. The company is asking for three, four or five years experience. I wish I knew this industry would offer a chance. But now I find myself telling people, for the most part, you don't have some experience you're not going to get in so it's actually very sad stuff. I wish I knew that when I was coming in. Unfortunately I can't encourage new comers, people just coming in, it affects post like myself, who have been in the subject, who have been in the profession, because they don't have any experience in it. Companies and firms or organisations, are just not willing to give them a chance. I wish I knew that I definitely like privacy, but I also want to see people were at the entry level as well.

Jamal: 12:30

One thing that you wish that you had known, when you go into the industry is that how difficult it's going to be for newcomers to come in the scene we see now is there such a big demand for privacy, that people read people to come in, hit the ground running. There is no time to train somebody. Right, right. Privacy is more important than has ever been before. We need people that know what they're talking about, we need them to come in and hit the ground running and one of the things that we do at the PrivacyPros Academy is we take people with little or no experience on a 12 week intensive process. So the first thing we do is look at their mindset. We don't want people with the losing mindset, I'm gonna read the book and pass an exam and become a Privacy Pro. That's just not going to happen. We immersed their brains in 12 weeks of intensive study so we go through each of the topics that they're likely to cover as covered in the IAPP Certified Information Privacy Professional, and we give them a deep dive into each 11 modules so we have master classes. Okay. By the time they graduate from each master class they become a subject matter expert on each of those topics. The next thing we do is then we put them through the formal IAPP training, so we put them through the formal training course give them the certificate of attendance, make sure they have that premium qualification and get certified to demonstrate their knowledge, then we put them through more intensive practical assignments. So like you said, nobody's gonna hire you, unless you know how to write a record, unless you know how to capture a record of processing activities, unless you know how to do a data protection impact assessment, unless you know how to respond to data subject access request, unless you already know how to finish the notation or language, but the customer understands when we put them through practical assignments and we train them on all of those things. The last thing we do is we help them with a personal brand. So now that you have the knowledge now that you have all the experience now that you have all of the premium certifications, you need to put that all in a package and communicate that to organisations and hiring managers like yourself, so that they make themselves an attractive opportunity to be a paid privacy, professional, and I strongly believe that when people go through the PrivacyPro programme and we can see from the success stories that it really exponentially increases their chances of securing highly paid work. What do you think of the programme, I know I've defined it very simply there but what are your initial thoughts on that?

Gbenga: 14:41

I think that's a very good initiative to me from the description, it sounds like a one stop shop incorporates everything. When I came into privacy, there's nothing like that. I think that's a very good development for you guys doing everything you described, the four processes like the new learning classical models and then the branding at the end. I often do that separately in a disjoint manner in several instances, there is no one organisation that combines all of those four steps together. It's like someone comes in, into your programme, a novice and they come out at the other end as a semi professional, I'd say that's a very very good development, your programme is intensive, every person trying to get into privacy should go to recommend, more people to the programme.

Jamal: 15:33

Here's the other thing Gbenga that would be really helpful for anyone that's interested whether they join the programme or not, we've got the Facebook group, Privacy Pros Academy. It's full of people who are aspiring to become Privacy Professionals, professional looking to take it to the next level. So for example, they might have had a few years experience, and now they're looking to come into consultancy like yours and perform on the next level, or people that are at your level that really want to go to the next level and give back so we have a community of people in the privacy space, and we're more than happy for anyone that is interested in the privacy that comes from your network to come into the group, and we will look after them, every week I go in there, I do a live answer your question, its a powerfully supportive environment for anyone that's looking to either launch Excel or progress their career in the privacy space so I'll share those details with you but anyone can go on Facebook Privacy Pros Academy, and join now, but what is the biggest challenge that you have to overcome

Gbenga: 16:31

privacy industry. The biggest challenge, definitely is. I'll say two things right, the very first one, is it actually doubles as a good thing. And it's also a challenge. The law changes, there's some organisations there in certain industries, they don't have to comply with just one regulation, they have to comply with several regulations and that's always a problem, prior engagement. I worked on, you have this client, trying to comply with the Mississippi in the US, and also the GDPR also wants to look at the NIST privacy framework as well. It's three things at the same time so that's always a very big challenge we have to work for a client that has plethora of laws they have to comply with. Companies in healthcare in the US for example they have deeper PII, but then you have to look at the GDPR for example as well, for the most part, most of them are similar, most of times, the effort might just be so so what I've learned from that is always try to compare regulations that apply, we do get a very big huge spreadsheet or whatever tool you want to use a comparison, so that you know this one if I do all of this one, and I've met some requirement for this tribulation does, that's always, that's always a challenge when an organisation have to comply with just not GDPR, three, four different stuff.

Gbenga: 17:56

And I would say, another challenge, definitely is the client. No, often you get to work for clients or major clients who are not really apprehensive, especially when, when you come in from the outside, wants to see their privacy programme, you know like, oh, this an audit, I don't want the ball to fall in my court, often become reluctant to show you what they're doing and estimating see you so you can help them because you do an audit, it's just an assessment. I think it's incumbent on companies and organisations to kind of prepare the minds of their relevant stakeholders that are going to be relevant for a privacy programme assessment for example, or any privacy work, especially when you're bringing people in from the outside, but they're not trying to audit you, you know check what you're doing is good or bad, prepared their mind, let them know that people are coming to see what they're doing. If you could do that, we won't seem like we're trying to challenge or they're doing, meeting with clients that are very hostile or cannot be cooperative, they're also looking to share things. Yeah, I

Jamal: 19:01

completely agree. I mean I've often been involved in situations where we go to visit a client and the client is not forthcoming with information, but we're just there trying to help them to get compliant and meet their privacy objectives, for some reason they feel that if they reveal certain information that it could jeopardise their position with the firm or you look to the manager eyes, and sometimes it becomes something beyond the actual privacy programme management and it becomes a bit of a political infighting. I think any great world class consultant, one of the things they have to understand is the human element and the psychology of managing those stakeholders and how to factor those things in, especially as a consultant when they go into an organisation and it clearly looks like you had some strength in doing that and you've built a lot of resilience to help you be as successful as you have been within your most recent role as well, that's a really useful insight. Now, I'm going to ask you the same question, what is one of the biggest challenges you've had to overcome, personally, and what have you learned from

Gbenga: 19:59

staying on top of constantly changing privacy or regulation so like I said, following the the promulgation of the CCPA we've seen US states trying to make their own comprehensive privacy laws as well. And now you have to keep up with all of these laws of different nations, and what they are because, from my experience, the client, take a view as know it all. So they ask you questions like, oh, so what are these last things, and if you haven't read that law, you might not know what to say to the client. Okay but I taught you're a Privacy Pro and you don't even know this law exists, every day, I'm checking the news, I check the IAPP newsletter, I check a lot of newsletters and I follow on what's the development, what's going on? People like yourself I saw some of your posts in LinkedIn as well, you know, I tried to, you know, get into groups that has to do with privacy and developments and things that are going on, just so that I don't appear like, I don't know what I'm talking about, you know, when I confront the client and the client asked me a question, so I would say personally definitely biggest challenge. Learn or study or try to help the client. I'm also trying to develop myself on this constantly evolving practice, keep checking all these new decisions or the DPA in this country, find the scope, let me see why the find them let me keep up. So yeah, as a person, that that's a very big challenge for me in the privacy space, and something, I've been able to rely on the available resources to overcome. That's what I've been doing, you know, relying on resources, LinkedIn, IAPP newsletters, Privacy groups posts from people like yourself and other professionals in the privacy space.

Jamal: 21:45

I completely relate to the challenges of keeping up with the constantly evolving updates in privacy, there's a new law coming out in the country in Asia and in one of the states in the US, and then one of the supervisory authority decides to go with this one and then we have a court ruling coming out with this opinion, which could be known prior to that, is a bit of a challenge trying to keep up. One of the things that I actually created earlier this year is the Privacy Pros community, and it's a WhatsApp group of global privacy professionals at the top of the game, people like me and you, and what we do is we come together and we post industry news we post relevant articles we both relevant updates, and we'll have those conversations on a peer to peer level. And you know what I would love to extend an invitation out to you after this course can help you with those challenges as well. And when you see that there's, you know, obviously professionals from all over the world. They all have different experiences you all have different backgrounds and, you know what you said about your, your slogan for life. And that's exactly what this group does

Gbenga: 22:50

is awesome, that's awesome. I really love that. Yeah, I think that's a very good resource to fall back on, and see, in the people posting stuff. Okay, I can understand that, obviously, I would love to contribute as well, you know actually got things in the US space. Yeah, I really love that. Thanks a lot.

Jamal: 23:09

My pleasure. It'd be great to have you on board. Okay, so my next question for you. What advice would you give to aspiring Privacy Professionals?

Gbenga: 23:18

don't get into privacy because of where you are. Oh, they're making a lot of money. That's why I want to get into Privacy because of the money. I mean obviously yeah, that's a good factor that could be the main factor because you're the people doing privacy, that's all about. A lot of people who have approached me. I'll say get in to privacy because if you don't love privacy you can't really do it, you have to actually love this profession, this subject, I can talk about privacy like forever like, yeah, I've never needed preparation for it, because I really love this and be like, it's something that I enjoy doing. So if you come into it with a different motive, aside from the love that you have for it, aside from interest in actually getting to know you, you have a problem, ultimately, when you get into practice because in practice is different. He said, organisations want you to come in and start running, they don't like try to teach you. So if you can get into without, you know, with the motive of just making money, someone is here to give you something to do, right, right there, it's very difficult for you to even know where to go to, what should I do, come with the right motive. The motive should be your love for the for the industry, for the subject, and not jump into.

Gbenga: 24:40

I would say come into it with, you know you actually learn in it, you actually wanted to know what it's about, go back in time and read what privacy is about read several articles about it, read books about it. Then if you want to supplement that with a certification yeah that's good, but the my knowledge is what's really going to help you. Eventually, when you get in and start doing answer pricing what definitely study more about it with the right mind state, the right motive. And if you want to get a certification on top of that, I would say go ahead. For every privacy job you see some kind of must have certification, the market requires it, maybe we should do, and also the thought now see is, you should rely on people were, who have more experience, more than yourself in this industry, you can have a mentor, and not necessarily a mentor someone who you look up to, someone who you can go to and ask questions if you don't have someone that went way beyond you doing privacy work, who has done privacy before, you're gonna have a very hard time. There are several aspects of privacy, it's not just, you need to have someone that you can go to ask complex questions, who is a controller and the processor, is this an instance of whole joint controllership or the independent controller those little questions can create a lot of problems, when you're doing privacy work, if you have someone who has been in the game for a while, who can definitely point you in the right direction, explain stuff to you so I will say that that's my whole thing, you know, as someone who has been in the game like yourself Jamal, they can run to, You know you can get guidance, and also the last thing is, made sure you always maintain with what's going on in privacy because it's a living profession is not static, constantly changes those changes every time. So, thank you. That

Jamal: 26:40

was a great value there. So the first thing you said, Hey guys, if you want to get into data privacy, they will do it for the love, not just for the money, the money is fantastic, but that should be your benefit for bringing value to the industry, not having to take the money away right, you can really bring value and you're coming to do a meaningful job and make sure that people's rights are protected, be passionate about privacy, and make sure you can demonstrate that passion, and the way you're going to do that is by making sure that you were widely read and understood that you understand the whole space completely. And the third thing I got from you was, get yourself a mentor, right, get yourself a mentor someone who's been there, done it, doing what you want to do, so that they can push you in the right direction without you having to go around in circles so. And the fourth thing you identified, although it's not something that you necessarily agree with is you said that, look, if you want to have any chances of becoming a privacy professional, you need to make sure that you have the IAPP certifications, whether that's the CIPPE as a basic or the CIPP US or the CMC depending on where you work, and the CIPM to becoming to the privacy programme manager. Another thing you said is the hiring managers won't even look at your CV or give you a callback, unless you have those minimum benchmarks in place, really great advice. And I think a lot of people can take that away and really start applying a lot of that as they're thinking about journey into data privacy and developing materials as well. You work for some of the biggest companies in the world. Right. What is it that you love most about your work to people I

Gbenga: 28:13

work with, I work with a lot of rare people. Now imagine you've been around like twenty thirty other guys who are like, you know, vast, in, in GDPR as well from privacy, makes your work a lot much more easier. The most fundamental thing that I love most about my experience, my work privacy works so far is the people I work with, for the most part, every time, these privacy related work, there are always people around me who are saying my state will notice that we will know more than myself so that always makes problem very easy, you just need to do your own. So it is the people that people I work with, I've been privileged to to work with. No, very good privacy professionals, and that is really really help my work. I would say without, without the people I've worked with, who understand privacy, my work would have been much more tedious, impossible to do but yeah so far, if we don't really see you I know, like those of people who understand privacy so you can't really really get lost or, you know, do something wrong because the people around you

Jamal: 29:18

is the people. For me, love it, love it, so the people is the thing that you love most about your work. I love that. You've given us a really good insight into you as a person as a privacy professional, and you mentioned mind state, quite a lot of times and I think that is super important. We're going to move on now. So recently I saw a post on LinkedIn, where you're looking for individuals to come and work with you, at Ernst and Young and one of the things that you do is you look through the applicants and series and you decide which of those you're going to pass on for consideration. So when you're going through that process when you're looking through hundreds of CVS, what is it that you're actually looking for what makes what makes one of these CVS stand out to you?

Gbenga: 29:56

the main thing I look out for is experience. I know I talked about this earlier, the industry should give room for new guys, but a consulting firm is no, it's not really where you want to start your career as a privacy professional, I wouldn't say just start at the big four, I would say start somewhere very somewhere very small, you know if I'm going to pass a resume to our manager, he must have at least one year experience, some kind of experience, if they don't have the experience, I would most likely not pass it, not pass it because it's just way the Big Four is built. The Big Four don't really really expend resources in teaching new new guys, as accommodate for the most part, you want guys who most likely from before big four, you know, who have experience everyday, or who have done some privacy work before in the past so to answer your question, the main thing I look out for is, you have to have some experience, the at least one year experience in privacy. It's the rules, is the model this is the game, that's what I look out for, I would say secondly is a certification. If you have definitely it's going to give you an edge, regardless of privacy training. Privacy intensive training or the knowledge you have something to prove to show you, then definitely that's going to pull you have this I would say that's like the two things, experience, and your demonstration of knowledge, maybe, past projects you've worked on and corroborate your knowledge of the industry, for me is priceless number one. Number two is like, you know, the kind of training that you do and you know at the end you give you, you know, the people who go through that same kind of access to experience, so yeah something like that, or something like that on your resume, are definitely possible. So, those are the factors.

Jamal: 31:43

Okay excellent so you look for two things. One is experience, and two is, some are relevant training someone that's actually has the winning mindset someone that says you know what I'm going to invest in myself, I'm going to put myself through some kind of formal privacy training programme. When you come out the other end, I'm going to be able to demonstrate my knowledge and the value I bring to a organisation. Right. Definitely. All right, excellent. Whatever advice do you have for someone who is looking to progress, so they're already in privacy maybe they've been in the privacy for let's say two years they have some experience they work for the firm, and now they're looking to progress on to the next level. What advice would you give to someone in that situation,

Gbenga: 32:22

but when you say, less level. What do you mean like you mean like from a manager to senior manager,

Jamal: 32:27

or let's just say from like an analyst to a consultant,

Gbenga: 32:30

that's actually a very big jump from an analyst to a consultant because people come into consultancy with a wrong mistake without knowing what it's all about. For the Big Four, it's even much more intensive, if you're going to progress from analyst to consultancy level, I'd say the first thing you should deal with is someone who is already in there to give like a kind of insight like this is where you're coming to experience, you know you're going to be travelling every time you're going to be doing, you're going to be jumping on different different projects, you an analyst you're only working for a company, just one company, when you come into this, you know, people won't call you might be on three, four different cases project or engagement in the space of three, four months, your knowledge of a business can be started, he has to keep changing, and you can ask yourself, like, do I really want to do this? Do I really want to engage in this debate should we not tell you, you know, the bad part of the consultants, or the good part.

Jamal: 33:26

So why don't you us the bad parts of being a consultant and the good parts?

Jamal: 33:30

Let's start off with the bad part first.

Gbenga: 33:32

Most consultants, you don't really get traction from doing a consultancy job. The reason I say this because my engaging to do something privacy related work, and then you come in you know, propose, you implement, everything start running, that's it. Consultancy, you're good, you leave, leave that position to the next project, you don't really know if your proposition worked the law has changed now. Are they doing something to what you propose? That's the satisfaction of, you know you just see what you created, growing, and you know, watering it and see what's, you know happening to you don't get that in consultancy. After two or three weeks, you're off, it's always good when you propose a control, and you see how it's going and that's the benefit you're going to get as an analyst in house for a company because you can do anything you propose, you know, guiding, you can look at it, you can nurture it, you can do a lot of stuff to it so yeah, you don't get that satisfaction of seeing your hand work progress, another person. I see the travelling the travelling is a lot. You're coming into consultancy, you have to know all this, especially Big Four talking about like throughout the whole week you might have to be away from your family. Yeah, you might have to be, you know the city you know the state that you've never been before, definitely something you should consider before and I'm not saying this to discourage you from coming to consultancy some people actually like professional travel, where you actually go to work. And for people that love to travel. Yeah, that's great, you I also love to travel as well and going on holiday,

Jamal: 35:06

I'm going travelling for work is two completely different things.

Gbenga: 35:09

Definitely. Another thing that I would say, about the bad side is the pressure, you have to do certain things a certain way, has to be at a very high quality, more than, you know, beyond your normal working hours sometimes, I had to work for clients in the UK who had branches in the US, I had to wake up at 3am in the morning. If I work for a company who is in Asia, hours ahead. That means I have to work like after five, you have to understand that if I come from an analyst position we know your role is probably nine to five, and consultancy no. Work, wake up very early, or you might work outside your normal working hours. Some people, three am, they're not really themselves, 2 am they're not themselves, in the consultancy firm, they expect you to be on your game at 2 am and when you are not really on your game, that might put some pressure on you, you know, to perform, even when you are not like at your best. Can I move to the good side now. Yeah.

Jamal: 36:09

Let's hear about some of the great things about being a consultant?

Gbenga: 36:12

because good side actually outweighs the bad side. If you're lucky, the most firms like EY offers you an opportunity to develop to encourage you, as I said the best thing about a consultancy firm is your knowledge is not restricted to one industry. In the space of one month or three months, you can work for several industries within the space of two to three months, and guess what, you're not doing one thing you're doing different things, you're touching different different aspects of privacy work, the Big Four offers you the platform to really expand your knowledge to reconfirm your knowledge to advance your knowledged. The learning chance that the Big Four gives us because that's what gives is one of the selling points, you can test the knowledge, your knowledge is going to develop, everything is going to build your knowledge is diverse, is not restricted to just one thing.

Gbenga: 37:05

So, as a consultant, you can be rest assure that you're going to get some kind of backing anything privacy, they're going to help you. You want to be a member of the of an organisation and a privacy organisation and the cost is hefty, don't worry. You want to take this exam, don't worry, you won't have to just go for this training, don't worry. They always like support, the your effort, your development, you just need to take advantage of that. Another good thing is the as an analyst in house, you probably look up to you to your boss in the Big Four, usually kind of a mixed role, you become independent, the Big Four, the travelling part that I said, is not as bad like I made it seem, if you have a very great team, you guys can still catch fun, you know, after work, you can still go out, go to restaurants, just get feel of this city where we are in the travelling experience is what you make it, but we get to where you're going, your destination. It depends on how you make it, make it a very fruitful one, you can try to explore the city. It just depends, it depends on the client, it depends on the kind of project, and the team that you have around you.

Jamal: 38:13

your top three so you get the supportive environment, you get to really learn so much more than you could if he was stuck in one business or one organisation, right, multiple clients learn multiple industries all in the space of a few months because, fantastic, of course, although travelling was a con, it's also a pro because you get to experience, experience different cities you get to experience different cuisines and at the end of the day, it's up to you what you make of your experience right, great tips there about the pros of being a consultant in the Big Four. I love it, thank you so much for answering all those questions, I have one last question for you before we wrap this up, if you could step into my shoes, what would you have asked yourself, that I didn't?

Gbenga: 38:57

introduction of technology into privacy work right now that most organisations are thinking that they can automate privacy and sort of treat that human effort for real privacy work for most clients is always very hard to get them to understand that privacy tools are only there to augment your, your effort, you can't totally automate privacy work,

Jamal: 39:20

that's great, I can get super passionate about clients misunderstanding what privacy technology actually does is there to support your privacy programme, not replace the human element of it, how can people connect with you?

Gbenga: 39:31

If people want to get in contact with me, I would say my LinkedIn. My name on LinkedIn is Gbenga Odugbemi. Engage me in any kind of discussion. Gbenga thanks

Jamal: 39:46

so much for joining us, and really sharing your nuggets of wisdom with us, giving us so much value that our listeners can really go away and start applying from today to really be able to excel in their career as a professional, God bless and take care.